3) At what point do people start engaging in political "direct action" in protest against the inability of government to act because of undemocratic rules, which, by stipulation, are perfectly constitutional, that serve only to illustrate how truly dysfunctional our Constitution is at the present moment.

I think it less that the Constitution, and more that our political actors are, dysfunctional. As I caught some genteel handwringing from the Majority Leader, I was lead to recall that his prior, opposite number, was a little more forceful in pushing publicly for his favorite bills. Where are the cries for up & down votes? Where is the nuclear option? Where is the outrage on behalf of the people? Where's the requirement to actually, I don't know, filibuster?

The only chutzpah they have shown this year is always being in session to avoid recess appointments. Basically, their biggest accomplishment is just showing up. Let's watch the Congressional approval rating drop a few more points in the next poll.
 

As the financial services sector collapses, the great and good of the Reagan/Bush deregulation era are coming to grief:-

Lawyer Charged With Huge Fraud Is Denied Bail - "A prominent New York lawyer [Marc Dreier] arrested this week on fraud charges ranks as “a Houdini of impersonation and false documents” who used guile, a box of cellphones and a series of phony Web sites and e-mail addresses to steal more than $380 million, a federal prosecutor said on Thursday."

Prominent Trader Accused of Defrauding Clients - "Regulators have not yet verified the scale of the fraud. But the criminal complaint filed against Mr. Madoff on Thursday in federal court in Manhattan reports that he estimated the losses at $50 billion."

As the "funny money" world unravels, despite the massive injections of yet further "funny money" created by pledging the credit of the US taxpayers, the real world of manufacturing looks set to go the same way.

Yes, American automobile manufacturing is in a parlous state: In October, only $500 million of auto bonds were sold, compared with $9 billion in October 2007. In October, car sales in the US were down by 32 per cent on the same month last year (GM’s sales were down by 45 per cent) and in the long term there is probably only room for 5 or 6 manufacturers in the global volume market of which Toyota, Honda, Renault-Nissan and Volkswagen will be four. The US manufacturer best placed for survival is probably Ford, not least because of its competitive European operations.

But it is not just the 240,000 people employed by the big three - it is all those employed by the subcontractors and dealers downstream. I'd be worried about a recession set fair to turn into a real old-fashioned depression.

Are the Republican senators who killed the bailout having some kind of "Götterdämmerung" moment?

Or is it just that Senator Mitch McConnell, who in 2006 was given a perfect score by the American Conservative Union, fancies himself as a 21st Century Madame de Pompadour: "au reste, après nous, le déluge"? The good Senator's Official Photo does make him look a mite prissy - but even dragged up, he would hardly qualify as "maîtresse-en-titre" material.
 

I second Fraud Guy. I note one NYT article noted one cloture effort failed with 52 votes:

"The Senate voted 52 to 35 with 10 Republicans joining 40 Democrats and 2 independents in favor."

The Dems picked at most eight votes this year in the Senate. One vote is in recount. So, the filibuster rule, if anything, not lame ducks per se blocked things.

Good luck with a constitutional change that takes control of the rules of voting from the Congress, putting aside a few bad results from a strict majority rule. The need for a lame duck period for the presidency has been covered already.

Change of political will, small "c"onstitution, is key. And, it is hard. But, if it's done, change will come w/o altering the Constitution.
 

Sandy:

The Dem/Bush plan was a bailout of the UAW with unrelated nonsense imposing further enviro standards that will make it harder for the Big Three to remain solvent. (Anyone notice how the Dems and Bush keep allying to loot the treasury?)

Corker's GOP plan would have addressed the core problems by compelling the UAW to renegotiate their contract ($68 per hour) in line with all the compensation packages received by all the other auto workers in the United States ($48 per hour) and would relieve the Big Three of much of the tens of billions in legacy costs to pay for past cadillac UAW health and retirement benefits. Essentially the legislation would have compelled bankruptcy reorganization without the bankruptcy.

Last night, the UAW refused to make the concessions to allow the Big Three to move to economic viability and insisted on looting the treasury to maintain their current extravagant life style. Of course, their Dem servants went along.

The failure here is the willingness of the Dems to allow the Big Three (or more likely only GM and Chrysler) to potentially fail and the markets to tank rather than say no to a major campaign contributor seeking to loot the treasury to fill their own pockets.

That failure would not have been avoided by adding more Dems to the Senate earlier. It would have made the likelihood of this failure greater.

Now, hopefully, GM and Chrysler are off to Chapter 11 bankruptcy court to ask a judge to compel what the Dem Congress refused to legislate, staunching for the moment the pillaging of our children and grand children's wages in future taxes to pay off this soon to be trillion plus dollar debt.
 

Looting the treasury? The $15 billion Congress was going to loan the Big 3 is about what we piss through in 2 months over in Iraq.
 

Bart still continues to amaze me at what he can argue/type with (apparently) a straight face...
 

If all that defines a society are its rules then it won't last long. Your continued assumption otherwise Prof. Levinson, is what pisses me off. You of all people should know that there is no rule separating High Politics from Low. You cannot reconstruct social ties ties be rewriting laws.
Contemporary academia is as symptomatic of the Weimarization of our culture as the senate republicans, but they just lost an election and academia goes on,
I apologize for being curt. You don't defend brittle academicism but its infecting your thought.

And Bart, of course, is simply lying.
 

Bart writes:
compelling the UAW to renegotiate their contract ($68 per hour) in line with all the compensation packages received by all the other auto workers in the United States ($48 per hour)
...

Last night, the UAW refused to make the concessions to allow the Big Three to move to economic viability and insisted on looting the treasury to maintain their current extravagant life style. Of course, their Dem servants went along.

Just curious where you got that. The actual details of the plan, as opposed to the ideological ranting.
 

Bit:

Jason's http://nomedals.blogspot.com link is a good start.

Even the Dem NYT recognizes that the talks broke down over the when the UAW has to take cuts to its compensation package to match its competitors.
 

Jason's post begins with ignorance, or a lie.

"According to GM's annual report, it paid the UAW workers $73.26 per hour in wages and benefits."

No. That number is for all expenses: benefits for employees and retirees. This has been covered enough already.

A capital hill resident writes to Josh Marshall
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/247855.php

"I don't think it'll be hard to explain why Senate Republicans had the final say: that's what the Constitution and Senate rules require. How else would we have passed anything?
I do think it'll be hard for Senate Republicans to explain themselves.

They were invited, repeatedly, to participate in more than a week of negotiations with a Republican White House. They declined.

They were asked to provide an alternative bill. They refused.

Finally, one of their members - Senator Corker of Tennessee - participated in a day-long negotiation with Senate Democrats, the UAW, and bondholders. Everyone made major concessions. Democrats gave up efficiency and emissions standards. UAW accepted major benefit cuts and agreed to reduce workers' wages. Bondholders signed off on a serious haircut. But when Senator Corker took the deal back to the Republican Conference, they argued for two hours and ultimately rejected it.

Why? Because they wanted the federal government to forcibly reduce the wages of American workers within the next 12 months.

Heard this morning that President Bush may still use TARP money to rescue the automakers. He reportedly doesn't want to end up as the next Hoover."

I don't have much sympathy for the heads of the big three but I have some for the workers. They don't matter much to you I guess.

Here's something else you should read. http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/247803.php

I'm not in favor of a bailout, but blackmail right about now would be a good idea.
 

"Background: A new Civil War is breaking out when it comes to automaking in America, and it was evident in the lineup yesterday of senators for and against bailing out Detroit. Japanese, Korean, and German automakers are now building 18 auto assembly plants in the United States, none of which is unionized. Kentucky (home to Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell) already has Toyota's biggest auto assembly plant outside Japan. Tennessee (home to Senate Rep. Bob Corker, who came up with the "chapter 11" bailout amendment which was the basis for an attempted compromise yesterday) houses Nissan's North American headquarters. Alabama (Senate Rep. Richard Shelby) hosts a range of foreign automakers.

There's no reason to suppose the good citizens of Kentucky, Tennessee, or Alabama are particularly excited at the prospect of handing over their taxpayer money to competing firms and their workforces, especially since almost every one of these states already gave foreign firms big tax-payer supported inducements to come and create jobs there.

Besides, southern Republican are not particularly enamored with the UAW, which has steadfastly bankrolled Democrats who have taken on Republicans. (The new Congress will have at least six new Democrats from formerly Republican districts, all of whom received at least $40K from the UAW.)"
 

D. Ghirlandaio said...

Jason's post begins with ignorance, or a lie.

"According to GM's annual report, it paid the UAW workers $73.26 per hour in wages and benefits."

No. That number is for all expenses: benefits for employees and retirees. This has been covered enough already.

What is your point?

These are the current labor costs per active worker who has to produce enough income to pay for them.

There is no separate magic money tree to pay for legacy retirement and health care costs, although the UAW and their Dem servants in Congress are doing their best to turn us into that money tree.

I do think it'll be hard for Senate Republicans to explain themselves.

They were invited, repeatedly, to participate in more than a week of negotiations with a Republican White House. They declined.

Why? The polls indicate that the citizenry also oppose the UAW bailout by nearly a 2-1 margin.

The GOP is finally acting like a fiscally responsible party again after years at the trough.

Let the Dems take complete blame for this looting of the tax payers the same way they did for the Clinton tax increases.

Finally, one of their members - Senator Corker of Tennessee - participated in a day-long negotiation with Senate Democrats, the UAW, and bondholders. Everyone made major concessions. Democrats gave up efficiency and emissions standards. UAW accepted major benefit cuts and agreed to reduce workers' wages. Bondholders signed off on a serious haircut. But when Senator Corker took the deal back to the Republican Conference, they argued for two hours and ultimately rejected it.

Why? Because they wanted the federal government to forcibly reduce the wages of American workers within the next 12 months.

The UAW wanted to put off wage equalization until 2011 and did not give anything on legacy costs, meaning they want three years of tax payer money to finance their current contract and presumably more money indefinitely to support their cadillac retirement programs.

GM and Chrysler claim they will go under this year, not in 2011. Obviously, the restructuring needs to take place now.

The Dem "compromise" was a non starter.
 

How much will the stock market decline tomorrow?

Apparently a lot less than after the TARP passed and Obama was elected.
 

This comment has been removed by the author.
 

The GOP is finally acting like a fiscally responsible party again after years at the trough.

Amazingly, the only time they want the government to cut back on spending is when they are not directing the expenditures.

Perhaps I would consider that they believe in responsibility when they actually accept it.

The Dem/Bush plan was a bailout of the UAW with unrelated nonsense imposing further enviro standards that will make it harder for the Big Three to remain solvent. (Anyone notice how the Dems and Bush keep allying to loot the treasury?)

Actually, the Treasury is empty. It was looted a few years ago. We are now borrowing and creating money to pay off the previous looters. Now I wonder who that was?

...

Ah, yes, the fiscally responsible ones.
 

Bart writes:
There is no separate magic money tree to pay for legacy retirement and health care costs, although the UAW and their Dem servants in Congress are doing their best to turn us into that money tree.

Of that $70/hour labor cost, about $29 is for actual labor. Benefits of actual non-retirees comes to about $40. Still pretty high. That said, labor is about 10 percent of the cost of a car, and under the UAW 2007 VEBA agreement, the big two will be able to shed all but $9 of those legacy costs by 2010. Still more than Toyota, but down from about $30.

However, that GM is providing so much to so many retirees brings to mind a point: If they collapse (which perhaps they should) so will those many retirees.

In engineering, complex systems often have designed weak points intended for failure under certain conditions. The idea is to design a system such that a failure can be reliably predicted and chosen in advance. I realize that may not extrapolate well to this situation. Yet, if the 'big three' are to collapse, a controlled failure may be preferable to a complete one. Its the sharp stick in the eye versus the dull stick in the eye idea, in the broader sense of the economic picture. The big three are probably overdue for failure. It may just be a question of controlling impact.

And what's with the "Dem servants in congress" over and over rant? Are you deliberately trying to sound like a 12 year old? Honestly, what makes you think that democrats are the only ones in corporate pockets here? The chief difference I see here is that most who post at this forum see the entire 'dem .vs. gop' ping ping match as the choice of the lesser of two evils, and you seem to somehow think that it's good .vs. bad. I mean, really, how naive can you get.
 

Bart wrote:
Jason's http://nomedals.blogspot.com link is a good start.

He fabricates too much material for my preferences.
 

Whether it's $70/hour or $40/hour for a day's work, it is really hard to see a DUI lawyer like LSR Bart whining about sums of that order being excessive remuneration.

I wonder what dear LSR Bart's hourly billing rate might be and precisely what added value there is to the national economy other than that some inebriates in Colorado may thereby continue to operate their lethal weapons on the highways and byways of the state, doubtless generating much useful employment for the medical emergency services who have to try to mend what gets broken in car crashes (Murkin = "auto wrecks"?)
 

Aren't DUI fees based upon the anticipated results that the "successful" DUI lawyer "sells" to his clients that may go beyond actual trial skills? (Remember the punch line to the old joke where a tradesman charged an electric company $1 million for restarting the company's system with one bang of his monkey wrench on a generator and the company questioned his charge based upon the limited time and effort it involved. Tradesman: "You've got to know where to knock.")
 

D. Ghirlandaio ouch I feel that I am neither ignorant or a liar. I have posted reputable links to other sources for each point. Do you have a problem with what they stated?

First point;
You stated, "Jason's post begins with ignorance, or a lie."
"According to GM's annual report, it paid the UAW workers $73.26 per hour in wages and benefits."
According to briefing materials prepared by General Motors, "The total of both cash compensation and benefits provided to GM hourly workers in 2006 amounted to approximately $73.26 per active hour worked."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/topstories/2008-12-11-2268737823_x.htm
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/db5b55a4de4737f384d2e4ef9db886de.htm
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2162.cfm
Your second statement;
"I don't think it'll be hard to explain why Senate Republicans had the final say: that's what the Constitution and Senate rules require. How else would we have passed anything?
First, I understand the rules on the procedural vote that failed to garner 60% of the senate. Let’s apply achems razor to this situation. The simplest idea in this situation is that the Republicans want to break up the Union.
My question to you is, "Did you read the legislation?"?
Lastly,
As to the President using TARP money, the President doesn't have the authority to do so. Second of the original it is almost all spent.
I live very close to Flint, MI this is where the unions started. If GM, Delphi, or all or some of the parts manufacturers close it’s going to hurt our economy more which currently has a unemployment rate of 10.9%. The situation is dire for us but the long term solution is that GM files Chapter 11.
 

Mourad:

1) There is no such thing as excessive compensation. There is the compensation for which consumers are willing to pay.

2) My firm may indeed be a good illustration of this principle.

I took a pay cut to run a solo law firm in a rural mountain county. My clients are not wealthy and I end up doing a great deal of pro bono work because they cannot afford to pay my full fee.

I usually net less than a senior UAW employee.

As elsewhere, the economy has slowed here and I am now netting less.

Rather than whining like the UAW, I tightened my belt and started a new marketing campaign to bring in more business.

It is my job to bring my neighbors a product they find cost effective. It is NOT my neighbors' job to pay taxes to provide me with the standard of living of my choice. I would never even consider petitioning my senators and representatives to rob my neighbors to bail me out.

I think I can speak bluntly for the vast majority of the citizenry who make less than the UAW and are being asked to pay their cadillac compensation package through our taxes - go f_ _k yourselves and the damn Congess critters you bought.
 

go f_ _k yourselves and the damn Congess critters you bought.

# posted by Bart DePalma : 1:52 PM


What a coincidence, the rest of America said the same thing to you in the last election.
 

1) There is no such thing as excessive compensation. There is the compensation for which consumers are willing to pay.

In the vast majority of cases, I don't directly determine the compensation of the workers at the companies who receive my custom, especially for goods, but also for services.

The real issue is the distribution of compensation. As the historical record shows, without controls imposed by either the workers or the government, companies will usually do their best to minimize the amount paid to labor in order to maximize their personal profits. Because the ability of an individual worker to influence their pay is effectively small, with significant downside risks, the ability of unions to collectively bargain reduces the massive force multiplier of the employers’ ability to hire and fire and spreads that risk over many, instead of one. But the next time you can tell HR at AIG what to pay their workers, give me a ring.

2) My firm may indeed be a good illustration of this principle.

I … run a solo law firm in a rural mountain county ….I usually net less than a senior UAW employee. As elsewhere, the economy has slowed here and I am now netting less. Rather than whining like the UAW, I tightened my belt and started a new marketing campaign to bring in more business.

Then you are not representative of most workers. You produce a highly skilled service, and as a solo shop have direct control over all aspects of your business except custom. Most workers work for someone else. Unless and until our technology and social maturity change, that’s going to remain the norm. Because they work for someone else, most workers have little or no control over their marketing, or their design department, or the owner, or their compensation level.

As an example: If you make a mistake, you pay for it, or your malpractice insurance does, and it affects you and your family. If the head of a major corporation makes a mistake, he can be fired, but if his mistakes are severe enough, they can cause the losses of thousands of jobs of people who could not control his decision making. However, while they will get their 60 days, suddenly expensive COBRA, and 6-9 months of unemployment at 50% of their previous pay (good luck covering COBRA on that), that CEO will usually get millions in severance, paid insurance, and will still likely be serving on the boards of other corporations where they are collecting tens and hundreds of thousands in compensation.

But I'm getting off my main point.

I think I can speak bluntly for the vast majority of the citizenry who make less than the UAW and are being asked to pay their cadillac compensation package through our taxes - go f_ _k yourselves and the damn Congess critters you bought.

Bart, why don’t you have cadillac compensation? Did you not make the right investments for your retirement? Were you not able to get affordable health insurance as an individual? Were your clients not able to pay you because they got laid off, because some CEO decided that they were too expensive to meet revenue targets, so their position was either offshored or divided among other workers so that he could get his bonus for hitting that revenue target? Despite your fantasies, we are not a nation of rugged individualists. We are a nation of communities. What affects your neighbor also impacts you (as you are now apparently finding out). It is not your neighbor's job to support you in the manner to which you are accustomed. However, we all pay taxes, and some of those taxes go to create a social safety net which ensures that if our neighbors lose their jobs, are disabled, or become too old to continue working, that they should receive enough money to barely live and feed themselves. This is to prevent the social disintegration that would occur should they have to live in the streets and public spaces, or starve to death in our communities. We basically place a minimum value on life in the US, and try to keep our citizens from falling below it.

The bailout for the car makers was not for the unions. It was for us, the tax payers. The credible estimates are that between 1-2% of all jobs in this country are tied to the auto industry, and even Toyota has said that if Detroit went under, it would cripple their functions in the US (because they share suppliers, design and production, etc.) Now take that 1-2% of the workforce and turn them from taxpayers to tax takers. What does that do to the budget? What does that do to the other people in their communities who provide goods and services to them? And when they lose their jobs, because no one can patronize their businesses, what happens to the people who used to depend on them?

You and Senate Republicans want to create a freaking economic black hole in the Midwest because you hate the unions. GROW UP! WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER! That black hole will suck down the rest of the country—even Canada has realized this, and is chipping in over $3Bn to support Detroit 3’s Canadian operations.

The problem is that there are those who feel that they can earn compensation which is completely outsized to the benefits they produce. I am not talking about UAW, whose current workers earn about 5% more than non-UAW; with labor cost being, IIRC, less than 10% of car cost, they are not significantly impeding car sales because of their incomes—but if their incomes are sharply reduced, it will hit their communities hard. No, it’s the bankers who felt that they weren’t earning enough off of their billions in assets, and so tripled their companies’ leverage to add Billions in compensation to their top tiers. It’s the financiers/insurers who felt they could add Billions in fees by guaranteeing wagers on Trillions in assets, that they couldn’t cover.

Don't get mad at the union workers who recently restructured their contracts to reduce their wages. Get mad at the bankers who gambled away other peoples money to increase their own pay. Get mad about the regulators over the past 20+ years who, for the sake of “free” and unfettered markets, let these risks occur, even though it was well predicted it would end badly. Get mad at a system that allows high officials to clearly and admittedly break the law without punishment, because political expedience encourages it.

In short, you are reaping what you have sown.

You can speak bluntly for all the people who make less than the UAW because they live in a right to work state, or work for companies who have been effective and denying workers a living wage. What happens when people can’t find that living wage? They live poor, malnourished lives—economically, socially, and nutrionally. They die sooner, are more likely to engage in risky behavior, including crime, and have poorer prospects to get themselves out of their situation. And so do their children, and their children’s children, and so on, and so on, and so on.

You can speak bluntly for people who feel that it is better to live poorly with a "free market" rather than a system that guarantees minimum health coverage for every man, woman and child, with less direct and indirect cost to the community than the "everyone has health care at the ER" model. When you say that you don’t want to pay for someone else’s health care, you are saying that you would rather have your neighbor die young of a curable ailment, at increased cost, than have him help you out when you are down, also.

You can speak bluntly for people who feel the union retirees should have their benefits stripped, when just a few years ago you probably felt the best place to put that money was the stock market.

And on a personal note—and I will take down this rant if our hosts desire--congratulations on tightening your belt. So have I. Two years ago my wife and I were earning over $90 a year, with a few hundred in the bank. We took a chance to buy a new house to start a new life with children we were adopting. Then the renter backed out, the adoption fell through thanks to undisclosed history, the house didn’t sell and the foreclosure just finished. During all that I was unemployed for six months, my wife has needed two surgeries, and our income has dropped 25%. We lost over $130K on the foreclosure, are behind on the current home (and the bank, whose ads talk about keeping people in their homes, only offers workouts that increase the payment) with over $100K of debt in collection, and are teetering between bankruptcy and disaster (too much income for 7, not enough to pay for 13). So I think I can speak bluntly for the vast majority of the citizenry who have been screwed over by the banking industry and the administration they bought while pandering to “values voters” like yourself to go f_ _k themselves and the damn Congess critters you bought. And as for the Congress critters “we” bought? I have to admit, you got more for your money for yours, and look where it’s gotten us.
 

"Bart" DeBugblatter:

1) There is no such thing as excessive compensation. There is the compensation for which consumers are willing to pay.

The BoD sets the executive compensation, not the consumers (and they're an inbred bunch too).

2) My firm may indeed be a good illustration of this principle.

I took a pay cut to run a solo law firm in a rural mountain county....

Let's do the "Geico" commercial routine, with moi as the translator:

"No one else wanted to work with me...."

... My clients are not wealthy and I end up doing a great deal of pro bono work because they cannot afford to pay my full fee.

"My clients as a bunch of Cris'shun fundie deadbeat secret lushes in Colorado Springs."

I usually net less than a senior UAW employee.

"The free market works!"

As elsewhere, the economy has slowed here and I am now netting less....

"Don't worry, the recession will bring on massive alcohol abuse problems ... but I still won't get paid."

Rather than whining like the UAW, I tightened my belt and started a new marketing campaign to bring in more business. It is my job to bring my neighbors a product they find cost effective.

"I provide lots of work pro bono. But I repeat myself."

;-)

Cheers,
 

d""According to GM's annual report..."
jason, Bart at least got the point. You weren't paying attention. I stand by my statement, because it's a statement of the facts. Read a little more and you'll find that the talking points you're so fond of are just that.

And speaking of talking points, here're the ones supplied to the republcan caucus: http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/12/1713569.aspx

"As to the President using TARP money, the President doesn't have the authority to do so."

That is being argued as we speak. Again, you are not paying attention.

"Second of the original it is almost all spent."

Do you mean the 700 Billion?
Half of it is still in the kitty.

I think we're done here
 

Fraud Guy said...

BD: 1) There is no such thing as excessive compensation. There is the compensation for which consumers are willing to pay.

In the vast majority of cases, I don't directly determine the compensation of the workers at the companies who receive my custom, especially for goods, but also for services...But the next time you can tell HR at AIG what to pay their workers, give me a ring.

Every time a consumer such as yourself buys a non-union car instead of a UAW product, you are setting the market value of wages.

The real issue is the distribution of compensation. As the historical record shows, without controls imposed by either the workers or the government, companies will usually do their best to minimize the amount paid to labor in order to maximize their personal profits. Because the ability of an individual worker to influence their pay is effectively small, with significant downside risks...

Employers pay what they feel the labor is worth and workers are free to leave for a job with a better compensation package.

This is not a static environment. The risk is the same.

If you underbid the market price of labor, folks will not work for you and you go out of business.

If you overcharge your labor, no one hires you and you are unemployed.

2) My firm may indeed be a good illustration of this principle. I … run a solo law firm in a rural mountain county ….I usually net less than a senior UAW employee. As elsewhere, the economy has slowed here and I am now netting less. Rather than whining like the UAW, I tightened my belt and started a new marketing campaign to bring in more business.

Then you are not representative of most workers.

Our services may be different, but the market principle is the same - you provide a cost effective service consumers are willing to buy or you are unemployed.

The UAW refuses to do this and is instead seeking to steal your money.

You produce a highly skilled service, and as a solo shop have direct control over all aspects of your business except custom.

I have been speaking about demand, not supply. Neither my firm nor the UAW controls demand. We can only cater to that demand or become unemployed.

BD: I think I can speak bluntly for the vast majority of the citizenry who make less than the UAW and are being asked to pay their cadillac compensation package through our taxes - go f_ _k yourselves and the damn Congess critters you bought.

Bart, why don’t you have cadillac compensation?

Because this market in my rural county will not bear such monetary compensation. [Of course, we are only speaking monetarily. I also get to work in a little town in the middle of heaven with great people.]

Despite your fantasies, we are not a nation of rugged individualists. We are a nation of communities.

I agree. We are a nation where you have the opportunity to be a rugged individualist. The majority of the population are satisfied with working for others and simply floating along through life.

It is not your neighbor's job to support you in the manner to which you are accustomed. However, we all pay taxes, and some of those taxes go to create a social safety net.

We are not discussing a social safety net for the unemployed and those who cannot help themselves. We are speaking of compelling taxpayers to subsidize a $68 per hour UAW compensation instead of a $48 per hour non union compensation.

The bailout for the car makers was not for the unions. It was for us, the tax payers. The credible estimates are that between 1-2% of all jobs in this country are tied to the auto industry...

I heard this same spin when the Colorado based United Airlines went begging for money to subsidize their labor costs against low cost competitors. Thankfully, instead of receiving a bailout, United went into bankruptcy to restructure, the courts compelled renegotiation of the insane labor agreements paying pilots up to a half million per year and United came out the other side a functional company with nearly all of its employees. Those who lost their jobs with United found others.

You and Senate Republicans want to create a freaking economic black hole in the Midwest because you hate the unions. GROW UP! WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!

Spare me.

The Dems and the unions have ruled Michigan and Detroit for as long as I can remember. There has also been a nearly decade long recession there, business collapse and double digit unemployment. This is not a coincidence

Meanwhile, the auto industry down in the southern red states is basically healthy, business continues to flow into the region and unemployment is about 60% of that in Michigan.

These are not coincidences.

We are NOT all in this together. The Dems and the Unions brought this crisis onto themselves and also hold the keys to getting out of their mess. They simply refuse to do so out of greed and instead are turning to theft.
 

Bart,

I have to admit, I had been concerned about your response, in case I had missed or overstated something. I do appreciate you taking your time to completely respond to my post.

Unfortunately, nine swings, nine misses, means you're out of the inning.

One additional point of fact; UAL is based out of Chicago, not Colorado.

Thank you for playing.
 

mesothelioma Mesotheliomais a form of cancer that is almost always caused by exposure to Asbestos In this disease, malignant cells develop in the mesothelium, a protective lining that covers most of the body's internal organs. Its most common site is the pleura (outer lining of the lungs and internal chest wall), but it may also occur in the peritoneum (the lining of the abdominal cavity), the heart the pericardium (a sac that surrounds the heart or tunica vaginalis.
Most people who develop
mesothelioma have worked on jobs where they inhaled asbestos particles, or they have been exposed to asbestos dust and fiber in other ways. Washing the clothes of a family member who worked with asbestos can also put a person at risk for developing Mesothelioma Unlike lung cancer, there is no association between mesothelioma and smoking but smoking greatly increases risk of other asbestos induced cancer.Compensation via
Asbestos funds or lawsuits is an important issue in
mesothelioma The symptoms of
mesothelioma include shortness of breath due to pleural effusion (fluid between the lung and the chest wall or chest wall pain, and general symptoms such as weight loss. The diagnosis may be suspected with chest X-ray and CT scan and is confirmed with a biopsy (tissue sample) and microscopic examination. A thoracoscopy inserting a tube with a camera into the chest) can be used to take biopsies. It allows the introduction of substances such as talc to obliterate the pleural space (called pleurodesis, which prevents more fluid from accumulating and pressing on the lung. Despite treatment with chemotherapy, radiation therapy or sometimes surgery, the disease carries a poor prognosis. Research about screening tests for the early detection of mesothelioma is ongoing.
Symptoms of mesothelioma may not appear until 20 to 50 years after exposure to asbestos. Shortness of breath, cough, and pain in the chest due to an accumulation of fluid in the pleural space are often symptoms of pleural
mesotheliomaSymptoms of peritoneal
mesothelioma include weight loss and cachexia, abdominal swelling and pain due to ascites (a buildup of fluid in the abdominal cavity). Other symptoms of peritoneal
mesothelioma may include bowel obstruction, blood clotting abnormalities, anemia, and fever. If the cancer has spread beyond the mesothelium to other parts of the body, symptoms may include pain, trouble swallowing, or swelling of the neck or face.
These symptoms may be caused by
mesothelioma or by other, less serious conditions.
Mesothelioma that affects the pleura can cause these signs and symptoms:
chest wall pain
pleural effusion, or fluid surrounding the lung
shortness of breath
fatigue or anemia
wheezing, hoarseness, or cough
blood in the sputum (fluid) coughed up hemoptysis
In severe cases, the person may have many tumor masses. The individual may develop a pneumothorax, or collapse of the lung The disease may metastasize, or spread, to other parts of the body.
Tumors that affect the abdominal cavity often do not cause symptoms until they are at a late stage. Symptoms include:
abdominal pain
ascites, or an abnormal buildup of fluid in the abdomen
a mass in the abdomen
problems with bowel function
weight loss
In severe cases of the disease, the following signs and symptoms may be present:
blood clots in the veins, which may cause thrombophlebitis
disseminated intravascular coagulation a disorder causing severe bleeding in many body organs
jaundice, or yellowing of the eyes and skin
low blood sugar level
pleural effusion
pulmonary emboli, or blood clots in the arteries of the lungs
severe ascites
A
mesothelioma does not usually spread to the bone, brain, or adrenal glands. Pleural tumors are usually found only on one side of the lungs
Diagnosing
mesothelioma is often difficult, because the symptoms are similar to those of a number of other conditions. Diagnosis begins with a review of the patient's medical history. A history of exposure to asbestos may increase clinical suspicion for
mesothelioma A physical examination is performed, followed by chest X-ray and often lung function tests. The X-ray may reveal pleural thickening commonly seen after asbestos exposure and increases suspicion of
mesothelioma A CT (or CAT) scan or an MRI is usually performed. If a large amount of fluid is present, abnormal cells may be detected by cytology if this fluid is aspirated with a syringe. For pleural fluid this is done by a pleural tap or chest drain, in ascites with an paracentesis or ascitic drain and in a pericardial effusion with pericardiocentesis. While absence of malignant cells on cytology does not completely exclude
mesothelioma it makes it much more unlikely, especially if an alternative diagnosis can be made (e.g. tuberculosis, heart failure
If cytology is positive or a plaque is regarded as suspicious, a biopsy is needed to confirm a diagnosis of
mesothelioma A doctor removes a sample of tissue for examination under a microscope by a pathologist. A biopsy may be done in different ways, depending on where the abnormal area is located. If the cancer is in the chest, the doctor may perform a thoracoscopy. In this procedure, the doctor makes a small cut through the chest wall and puts a thin, lighted tube called a thoracoscope into the chest between two ribs. Thoracoscopy allows the doctor to look inside the chest and obtain tissue samples.
If the cancer is in the abdomen, the doctor may perform a laparoscopy. To obtain tissue for examination, the doctor makes a small incision in the abdomen and inserts a special instrument into the abdominal cavity. If these procedures do not yield enough tissue, more extensive diagnostic surgery may be necessary.
There is no universally agreed protocol for screening people who have been exposed to
asbestosScreening tests might diagnose mesothelioma earlier than conventional methods thus improving the survival prospects for patients. The serum osteopontin level might be useful in screening asbestos-exposed people for
mesotheliomaThe level of soluble mesothelin-related protein is elevated in the serum of about 75% of patients at diagnosis and it has been suggested that it may be useful for screening. Doctors have begun testing the Mesomark assay which measures levels of soluble mesothelin-related proteins (SMRPs) released by diseased mesothelioma cells
Incidence
Although reported incidence rates have increased in the past 20 years, mesothelioma is still a relatively rare cancer. The incidence rate is approximately one per 1,000,000. The highest incidence is found in Britain, Australia and Belgium: 30 per 1,000,000 per year. For comparison, populations with high levels of smoking can have a lung cancer incidence of over 1,000 per 1,000,000. Incidence of malignant mesothelioma currently ranges from about 7 to 40 per 1,000,000 in industrialized Western nations, depending on the amount of asbestos exposure of the populations during the past several decades. It has been estimated that incidence may have peaked at 15 per 1,000,000 in the United States in 2004. Incidence is expected to continue increasing in other parts of the world. Mesothelioma occurs more often in men than in women and risk increases with age, but this disease can appear in either men or women at any age. Approximately one fifth to one third of all mesotheliomas are peritoneal.
Between 1940 and 1979, approximately 27.5 million people were occupationally exposed to asbestos in the United States.[ Between 1973 and 1984, there has been a threefold increase in the diagnosis of pleural mesothelioma in Caucasian males. From 1980 to the late 1990s, the death rate from mesothelioma in the USA increased from 2,000 per year to 3,000, with men four times more likely to acquire it than women. These rates may not be accurate, since it is possible that many cases of mesothelioma are misdiagnosed as adenocarcinoma of the lung, which is difficult to differentiate from mesothelioma.
Working with asbestos is the major risk factor for mesothelioma. A history of asbestos exposure exists in almost all cases. However, mesothelioma has been reported in some individuals without any known exposure to asbestos. In rare cases, mesothelioma has also been associated with irradiation, intrapleural thorium dioxide (Thorotrast), and inhalation of other fibrous silicates, such as erionite.
asbestos
is the name of a group of minerals that occur naturally as masses of strong, flexible fibers that can be separated into thin threads and woven.
asbestos
has been widely used in many industrial products, including cement, brake linings, roof shingles, flooring products, textiles, and insulation. If tiny asbestos particles float in the air, especially during the manufacturing process, they may be inhaled or swallowed, and can cause serious health problems. In addition to mesothelioma, exposure to asbestos increases the risk of lung cancer, asbestosis (a noncancerous, chronic lung ailment), and other cancers, such as those of the larynx and kidney.
The combination of smoking and
asbestos exposure significantly increases a person's risk of developing cancer of the airways (lung cancer bronchial carcinoma). The Kent brand of cigarettes used
mesothelioma in its filters for the first few years of production in the 1950s and some cases of
. have resulted. Smoking modern cigarettes does not appear to increase the risk of mesothelioma.
Some studies suggest that simian virus 40 may act as a cofactor in the development of mesothelioma.
Asbestos was known in antiquity, but it wasn't mined and widely used commercially until the late 1800s. Its use greatly increased during World War II Since the early 1940s, millions of American workers have been exposed to asbestos dust. Initially, the risks associated with
. exposure were not publicly known. However, an increased risk of developing mesothelioma was later found among shipyard workers, people who work in asbestos mines and mills, producers of asbestos products, workers in the heating and construction industries, and other tradespeople. Today, the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) sets limits for acceptable levels of
. exposure in the workplace, and created guidelines for engineering controls and respirators, protective clothing, exposure monitoring, hygiene facilities and practices, warning signs, labeling, recordkeeping, and medical exams. By contrast, the British Government's Health and Safety Executive (HSE) states formally that any threshold for
mesothelioma must be at a very low level and it is widely agreed that if any such threshold does exist at all, then it cannot currently be quantified. For practical purposes, therefore, HSE does not assume that any such threshold exists. People who work with
asbestos wear personal protective equipment to lower their risk of exposure. Recent findings have shown that a mineral called erionite has been known to cause genetically pre-dispositioned individuals to have malignant mesothelioma rates much higher than those not pre-dispositioned genetically. A study in Cappadocia, Turkey has shown that 3 villiages in Turkey have death rates of 51% attributed to erionite related
mesotheliomaExposure to
asbestos fibres has been recognised as an occupational health hazard since the early 1900s. Several epidemiological studies have associated exposure to asbestos with the development of lesions such as asbestos bodies in the sputum, pleural plaques, diffuse pleural thickening, asbestosis, carcinoma of the lung and larynx, gastrointestinal tumours, and diffuse mesothelioma of the pleura and peritoneum.
The documented presence of
asbestos fibres in water supplies and food products has fostered concerns about the possible impact of long-term and, as yet, unknown exposure of the general population to these fibres. Although many authorities consider brief or transient exposure to
asbestos fibres as inconsequential and an unlikely risk factor, some epidemiologists claim that there is no risk threshold. Cases of mesothelioma have been found in people whose only exposure was breathing the air through ventilation systems. Other cases had very minimal (3 months or less) direct exposure.
Commercial
asbestos mining at Wittenoom, Western Australia, occurred between 1945 and 1966. A cohort study of miners employed at the mine reported that while no deaths occurred within the first 10 years after crocidolite exposure, 85 deaths attributable to mesothelioma had occurred by 1985. By 1994, 539 reported deaths due to mesothelioma had been reported in Western Australia.
Family members and others living with
asbestos workers have an increased risk of developing
mesothelioma and possibly other asbestos related diseases. This risk may be the result of exposure to
asbestos dust brought home on the clothing and hair of
asbestos workers. To reduce the chance of exposing family members to asbestosMany building materials used in both public and domestic premises prior to the banning of
asbestos may contain
asbestos Those performing renovation works or activities may expose themselves to asbestos dust. In the UK use of Chrysotile asbestos was banned at the end of 1999. Brown and blue
asbestos was banned in the UK around 1985. Buildings built or renovated prior to these dates may contain asbestos materials.
For patients with localized disease, and who can tolerate a radical surgery, radiation is often given post-operatively as a consolidative treatment. The entire hemi-thorax is treated with radiation therapy, often given simultaneously with chemotherapy. Delivering radiation and chemotherapy after a radical surgery has led to extended life expectancy in selected patient populations with some patients surviving more than 5 years. As part of a curative approach to
mesothelioma radiotherapy is also commonly applied to the sites of chest drain insertion, in order to prevent growth of the tumor along the track in the chest wall.
Although
mesothelioma is generally resistant to curative treatment with radiotherapy alone, palliative treatment regimens are sometimes used to relieve symptoms arising from tumor growth, such as obstruction of a major blood vessel.
Radiation Therapy when given alone with curative intent has never been shown to improve survival from
mesothelioma The necessary radiation dose to treat mesothelioma that has not been surgically removed would be very toxic.
Chemotherapy is the only treatment for
mesothelioma that has been proven to improve survival in randomised and controlled trials. The landmark study published in 2003 by Vogelzang and colleagues compared cisplatin chemotherapy alone with a combination of cisplatin and pemetrexed (brand name Alimta) chemotherapy) in patients who had not received chemotherapy for malignant pleural mesothelioma previously and were not candidates for more aggressive "curative" surgery. This trial was the first to report a survival advantage from chemotherapy in malignant pleural
mesothelioma showing a statistically significant improvement in median survival from 10 months in the patients treated with cisplatin alone to 13.3 months in the combination pemetrexed group in patients who received supplementation with folate and vitamin B12. Vitamin supplementation was given to most patients in the trial and pemetrexed related side effects were significantly less in patients receiving pemetrexed when they also received daily oral folate 500mcg and intramuscular vitamin B12 1000mcg every 9 weeks compared with patients receiving pemetrexed without vitamin supplementation. The objective response rate increased from 20% in the cisplatin group to 46% in the combination pemetrexed group. Some side effects such as nausea and vomiting, stomatitis, and diarrhoea were more common in the combination pemetrexed group but only affected a minority of patients and overall the combination of pemetrexed and cisplatin was well tolerated when patients received vitamin supplementation; both quality of life and lung function tests improved in the combination pemetrexed group. In February 2004, the United States Food and Drug Administration approved pemetrexed for treatment of malignant pleural mesothelioma. However, there are still unanswered questions about the optimal use of chemotherapy, including when to start treatment, and the optimal number of cycles to give.
Cisplatin in combination with raltitrexed has shown an improvement in survival similar to that reported for pemetrexed in combination with cisplatin, but raltitrexed is no longer commercially available for this indication. For patients unable to tolerate pemetrexed, cisplatin in combination with gemcitabine or vinorelbine is an alternative, although a survival benefit has not been shown for these drugs. For patients in whom cisplatin cannot be used, carboplatin can be substituted but non-randomised data have shown lower response rates and high rates of haematological toxicity for carboplatin-based combinations, albeit with similar survival figures to patients receiving cisplatin.
In January 2009, the United States FDA approved using conventional therapies such as surgery in combination with radiation and or chemotherapy on stage I or II Mesothelioma after research conducted by a nationwide study by Duke University concluded an almost 50 point increase in remission rates.
Treatment regimens involving immunotherapy have yielded variable results. For example, intrapleural inoculation of Bacillus Calmette-Guérin (BCG) in an attempt to boost the immune response, was found to be of no benefit to the patient (while it may benefit patients with bladder cancer.
mesothelioma cells proved susceptible to in vitro lysis by LAK cells following activation by interleukin-2 (IL-2), but patients undergoing this particular therapy experienced major side effects. Indeed, this trial was suspended in view of the unacceptably high levels of IL-2 toxicity and the severity of side effects such as fever and cachexia. Nonetheless, other trials involving interferon alpha have proved more encouraging with 20% of patients experiencing a greater than 50% reduction in tumor mass combined with minimal side effects.
A procedure known as heated intraoperative intraperitoneal chemotherapy was developed by at the Washington Cancer Institute. The surgeon removes as much of the tumor as possible followed by the direct administration of a chemotherapy agent, heated to between 40 and 48°C, in the abdomen. The fluid is perfused for 60 to 120 minutes and then drained.
This technique permits the administration of high concentrations of selected drugs into the abdominal and pelvic surfaces. Heating the chemotherapy treatment increases the penetration of the drugs into tissues. Also, heating itself damages the malignant cells more than the normal cells.

What is the mesothelium?
The mesothelium is a membrane that covers and protects most of the internal organs of the body. It is composed of two layers of cells: One layer immediately surrounds the organ; the other forms a sac around it. The mesothelium produces a lubricating fluid that is released between these layers, allowing moving organs (such as the beating heart and the expanding and contracting lungs to glide easily against adjacent structures.
The mesothelium has different names, depending on its location in the body. The peritoneum is the mesothelial tissue that covers most of the organs in the abdominal cavity. The pleura is the membrane that surrounds the lungs and lines the wall of the chest cavity. The pericardium covers and protects the heart. The
mesothelioma tissue surrounding the male internal reproductive organs is called the tunica vaginalis testis. The tunica serosa uteri covers the internal reproductive organs in women.
What is mesothelioma?
mesothelioma (cancer of the mesothelium) is a disease in which cells of the mesothelium become abnormal and divide without control or order. They can invade and damage nearby tissues and organs.
cancer cells can also metastasize (spread) from their original site to other parts of the body. Most cases of mesothelioma begin in the pleura or peritoneum.
How common is mesothelioma?
Although reported incidence rates have increased in the past 20 years, mesothelioma is still a relatively rare cancer. About 2,000 new cases of mesothelioma are diagnosed in the United States each year. Mesothelioma occurs more often in men than in women and risk increases with age, but this disease can appear in either men or women at any age.
What are the risk factors for mesothelioma?
Working with asbestos is the major risk factor for mesothelioma. A history of . exposure at work is reported in about 70 percent to 80 percent of all cases. However, mesothelioma has been reported in some individuals without any known exposure to
Asbestos is the name of a group of minerals that occur naturally as masses of strong, flexible fibers that can be separated into thin threads and woven. . has been widely used in many industrial products, including cement, brake linings, roof shingles, flooring products, textiles, and insulation. If tiny asbestos particles float in the air, especially during the manufacturing process, they may be inhaled or swallowed, and can cause serious health problems. In addition to mesothelioma, exposure to asbestos increases the risk of lung cancer, asbestosis (a noncancerous, chronic lung ailment), and other cancers, such as those of the larynx and kidney.
Smoking does not appear to increase the risk of mesothelioma. However, the combination of smoking and asbestos exposure significantly increases a person's risk of developing cancer of the air passageways in the lung.
Who is at increased risk for developing mesothelioma?
asbestos has been mined and used commercially since the late 1800s. Its use greatly increased during World War II. Since the early 1940s, millions of American workers have been exposed to asbestos dust. Initially, the risks associated with asbestos exposure were not known. However, an increased risk of developing mesothelioma was later found among shipyard workers, people who work in asbestos. Today, the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) sets limits for acceptable levels of asbestos exposure in the workplace. People who work with asbestos wear personal protective equipment to lower their risk of exposure.
The risk o f asbestosrelated disease increases with heavier exposure to asbestos and longer exposure time. However, some individuals with only brief exposures have developed mesothelioma On the other hand, not all workers who are heavily exposed develop asbestos-related diseases.
There is some evidence that family members and others living with asbestos workers have an increased risk of developing mesothelioma, and possibly other asbestos-related diseases. This risk may be the result of exposure to
asbestos dust brought home on the clothing and hair of
asbestos workers. To reduce the chance of exposing family members to
asbestos fibers, asbestos workers are usually required to shower and change their clothing before leaving the workplace.
What are the symptoms of mesothelioma?
Symptoms of mesothelioma may not appear until 30 to 50 years after exposure to
asbestos Shortness of breath and pain in the chest due to an accumulation of fluid in the pleura are often symptoms of pleural mesothelioma. Symptoms of peritoneal mesothelioma include weight loss and abdominal pain and swelling due to a buildup of fluid in the abdomen. Other symptoms of peritoneal mesothelioma may include bowel obstruction blood clotting abnormalities, anemia, and fever. If the cancer has spread beyond the mesothelium to other parts of the body, symptoms may include pain, trouble swallowing, or swelling of the neck or face.
These symptoms may be caused by
mesothelioma or by other, less serious conditions. It is important to see a doctor about any of these symptoms. Only a doctor can make a diagnosis
How is
mesotheliomadiagnosed?
Diagnosing mesothelioma is often difficult, because the symptoms are similar to those of a number of other conditions. Diagnosis begins with a review of the patient's medical history, including any history of asbestos exposure. A complete physical examination may be performed, including x-rays of the chest or abdomen and lung function tests. A CT (or CAT) scan or an MRI may also be useful. A CT scan is a series of detailed pictures of areas inside the body created by a computer linked to an x-ray machine. In an MRI, a powerful magnet linked to a computer is used to make detailed pictures of areas inside the body. These pictures are viewed on a monitor and can also be printed.
A biopsy is needed to confirm a diagnosis of mesothelioma. In a biopsy, a surgeon or a medical oncologist (a doctor who specializes in diagnosing and treating cancer) removes a sample of tissue for examination under a microscope by a pathologist. A biopsy may be done in different ways, depending on where the abnormal area is located. If the
cancer is in the chest, the doctor may perform a thoracoscopy. In this procedure, the doctor makes a small cut through the chest wall and puts a thin, lighted tube called a thoracoscope into the chest between two ribs. Thoracoscopy allows the doctor to look inside the chest and obtain tissue samples. If the
cancer is in the abdomen, the doctor may perform a peritoneoscopy. To obtain tissue for examination, the doctor makes a small opening in the abdomen and inserts a special instrument called a peritoneoscope into the abdominal cavity. If these procedures do not yield enough tissue, more extensive diagnostic surgery may be necessary.
If the diagnosis is mesothelioma, the doctor will want to learn the stage (or extent) of the disease. Staging involves more tests in a careful attempt to find out whether the cancer has spread and, if so, to which parts of the body. Knowing the stage of the disease helps the doctor plan treatment.
Mesothelioma is described as localized if the cancer is found only on the membrane surface where it originated. It is classified as advanced if it has spread beyond the original membrane surface to other parts of the body, such as the lymph nodes, lungs, chest wall, or abdominal organs.
How is
.treated?
Treatment for mesothelioma depends on the location of the
cancerthe stage of the disease, and the patient's age and general health. Standard treatment options include surgery, radiation therapy, and chemotherapy. Sometimes, these treatments are combined.
Surgery is a common treatment for
mesotheliomaThe doctor may remove part of the lining of the chest or abdomen and some of the tissue around it. For cancer of the pleura (pleural
mesotheliomaa lung may be removed in an operation called a pneumonectomy. Sometimes part of the diaphragm, the muscle below the lungs that helps with breathing, is also removed.
Stereo Tactic Radiation Therapy also called radiotherapy, involves the use of high-energy rays to kill
cancercells and shrink tumors Radiation therapy affects the
cancercells only in the treated area. The radiation may come from a machine (external radiation) or from putting materials that produce radiation through thin plastic tubes into the area where the
cancercells are found (internal radiation therapy).
Chemotherapy is the use of anticancer drugs to kill cancer cells throughout the body. Most drugs used to treat
mesotheliomaare given by injection into a vein (intravenous, or IV). Doctors are also studying the effectiveness of putting chemotherapy directly into the chest or abdomen (intracavitary chemotherapy).
To relieve symptoms and control pain, the doctor may use a needle or a thin tube to drain fluid that has built up in the chest or abdomen. The procedure for removing fluid from the chest is called thoracentesis. Removal of fluid from the abdomen is called paracentesis. Drugs may be given through a tube in the chest to prevent more fluid from accumulating. Radiation Therapy and surgery may also be helpful in relieving symptoms.
 

tell me which side i'm on
approaching constant failure
who's friend or foe?
between love and hate
which path to follow?
how can i keep balance in this race?
come faith i'm dying.. slowly
 

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