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Thursday, April 26, 2007
Why the President Would Deny Our Troops the Resources They Need
Marty Lederman
The House and Senate conferees have agreed on a supplemental appropriations bill, H.R. 1591, the U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Health, and Iraq Accountability Act, 2007. The House voted for it yesterday (largely along partisan lines), and the Senate is expected to do likewise today. [UPDATE: The Senate has also approved the bill by a largely partisan vote.]
Comments:
Yes, but does the legislature actually have the power to direct these troop redeployments, limited and contingent as they are?
Isn't congress with this bill effectively sending the money, with strings they lack any constitution basis to pull?
Nona Nym,
Even President Bush acknowledges that Congress is acting within its constitutional authority. He simply disagrees with the policy articulated in the bill.
The Constitution is a design for legislative supremacy, it gives Congress all the tools they need to dominate a President, if they're willing to use them. Congress has the power, denied the President, to declare war. They authorized the war in Iraq, they can unauthorize it. And in the same bill, declare that continuing to fight an unauthorized war is a "high crime".
They won't, because if there's one thing both sides of the aisle agree on, it's the importance of making sure that Congress isn't blamed if Iraq falls into bloody civil war, and loses it's democratic government, after we leave. And so they're trying to pressure the President into making the decision, instead of making it themselves.
brett,
"...if Iraq falls into bloody civil war, and loses it's democratic government..."? Too late, man. Way too late ness
"Why the President Would Deny Our Troops the Resources They Need"
Ah, the resources they need to to what? The purpose of war funding is to provide the resources to fight the war. This bill would set a date certain (actually multiple dates) for retreat from and the surrender of Iraq to the enemy. This is the equivalent of Congress in 1944 "fully funding" the WWII, but requiring the troops to be out of France in 6 months. In other words, it is a bald faced lie to call this legislation a war funding bill. In effect, it is a bill to fund a retreat from and surrender of Iraq to the enemy. The President also complains that: [T]he Democratic leadership's proposal is aimed at restricting the ability of our generals to direct the fight in Iraq. They've imposed legislative mandates, they passed legislative mandates telling them which enemies they can engage and which they cannot. That means our commanders in the middle of a combat zone would have to take fighting directions from legislators 6,000 miles away on Capitol Hill. The result would be a marked advantage for our enemies and a greater danger for our troops. Presumably here the President is referring to subsection 1904(e), which would limit the functions of U.S. forces in Iraq to the four specified functions if and when the Secretary actually completes the redeployment. And one of those permitted residual functions would be to "engag[e] in targeted special actions limited in duration and scope to killing or capturing members of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations with global reach" -- hardly an unreasonable limitation after redeployment has been completed, and a far cry from "tak[ing] fighting directions from legislators 6,000 miles away on Capitol Hill." Thus, it's hard to take this objection seriously, either. Do you have any idea what is involved in a counter terror campaign? Counter terrorism is not simply sending in Rambo to surgically take out a terrorist leader and then quickly bugging out again so we can turn the channel and watch American Idol. We tried that during the last Administration and almost 4000 Americans were murdered between 1993 and 9/11. Rather, counter terrorism is about denying the enemy bases of operation and sources of new recruits. The military has had great success over the past year allying with Iraqi Sunni by extending US control into formerly al Qaeda dominated areas in Anbar province and now Diyala province. If Mr. Bush was inept enough to actually follow the inane restrictions in this bill, all of these gains would be reversed and Congress would give al Qaeda a decisive victory in Iraq which it could not win on its own against our military. The Key Compromise Language in H.R. 1591: SEC. 1901. (a) Congress finds that it is Defense Department policy that units should not be deployed for combat unless they are rated "fully mission capable". (b) None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available in this or any other Act may be used to deploy any unit of the Armed Forces to Iraq unless the chief of the military department concerned has certified in writing to the Committees on Appropriations and the Committees on Armed Services at least 15 days in advance of the deployment that the unit is fully mission capable... Ah, the Murtha plan for surrender rears its head again. Units in wartime never meet peacetime manning and training standards because they spend their time at the front actually fighting the war and take casualties in doing so. To use the WWII analogy again, if Congress in 1944 passed these requirements, the US Army would have had to withdraw from Europe 6 months short of winning the war and have surrendered Europe to the Nazis by default. This bill is nothing short of a betrayal of our military while on the field of battle and a clear provision of aid and comfort to the enemy.
jao: Even President Bush acknowledges that Congress is acting within its constitutional authority. He simply disagrees with the policy articulated in the bill.
Show me a quote. I very much doubt that Bush has anywhere conceded that Congress, short of declaring the war 'unauthorized,' ending its funding, and revoking the previously-passed authorizations, has the power to direct any of the redeployments or require any of the benchmarks contained in this bill. Bush's (apparent) plan to veto the bill hardly constitutes such a concession. I have heard the President say that he hates pork in the bill. I have heard him say that the idea of stating a date for withdrawal is a bad idea (which is not the same thing as agreeing that he thinks Congress has the power to enforce a withdrawal.) Seriously, show me where the Executive has agreed that the Legislature has the power to enforce the proscriptions on his commander-in-chief powers that this bill seems to contain.
"Bart" DePalma:
The purpose of war funding is to provide the resources to fight the war. This bill would set a date certain (actually multiple dates) for retreat from and the surrender of Iraq to the enemy. The enemy being the (U.S.-installed) gummint of Iraq? This is the equivalent of Congress in 1944 "fully funding" the WWII, but requiring the troops to be out of France in 6 months. No. More like this (and similar antics of the other Republicans at the time [as they did in Somalia as well, I'd note]). ... Rather, counter terrorism is about denying the enemy bases of operation and sources of new recruits. The military has had great success over the past year allying with Iraqi Sunni by extending US control into formerly al Qaeda dominated areas in Anbar province and now Diyala province. "Bart" ignores the fact that there was no "al Qaeda in Iraq" prior to the horrifically stoopid Dubya invasion of Iraq. And pretends that the problems in Iraq are due to foreign influence. When Petraeus was asked how many foreigners were in Iraq in his presser, he said "a couple dozen [at any time]". Both the Shia and the Sunni want the U.S. to leave. As does the majority of the American people. If Mr. Bush was inept enough to actually follow the inane restrictions in this bill, all of these gains would be reversed and Congress would give al Qaeda a decisive victory in Iraq which it could not win on its own against our military. al Qaeda won't "win" in Iraq. We may not like the folks that "win" all that much, but it would be native Iraqis. If that's not what Dubya wanted, he should have stayed the f*ck out.... Cheers,
Me: Even President Bush acknowledges that Congress is acting within its constitutional authority. He simply disagrees with the policy articulated in the bill.
Nona Nym: Show me a quote. No problem. Bush addressed that point specifically in a press conference on this very subject April 3: Q: When Congress has linked war funding with a timetable you have argued micromanagement. When they've linked it to unrelated spending, you've argued pork barrel. But now there's talk from Harry Reid and others that if you veto this bill, they may come back and just simply cut off funding. Wouldn't that be a legitimate exercise of a congressional authority, which is the power of the purse? THE PRESIDENT: The Congress is exercising its legitimate authority as it sees fit right now. I just disagree with their decisions. I think setting an artificial timetable for withdrawal is a significant mistake. It is a -- it sends mixed signals and bad signals to the region, and to the Iraqi citizens. And a few weeks earlier, the Wall Street Journal reported this after an on-the-record meeting of its editorial board with Bush: The President was also notably accommodative in conceding Congress's power of the purse to influence war decisions, even such things as where troops can be deployed. "I think they have the authority to defund, use their funding power," he said, even to influence "total deployments in Iraq." What is truly hilarious is that even in the face of such a position actually articulated by the President (not to mention the clear constitutional merits of congressional power, and ample precedent in Vietnam, Somalia, etc. Browse this blog for details), persons such as you continue to repeat the fairy-tale meme that Congress lacks authority to legislate in this field.
since there are referance to WWII, remember that we were attack and had war declared on us, and guess what, the whole country was involved in this struggle, not so now.
Bart De Palma says:
"Counter terrorism is not simply sending in Rambo to surgically take out a terrorist leader and then quickly bugging out again so we can turn the channel and watch American Idol. We tried that during the last Administration and almost 4000 Americans were murdered between 1993 and 9/11." IIRC, 9/11 occurred during the current administration, about 9 months after they took over the office. It also sounds like you are including incidents like the USS Cole et al. So to correct your numbers, the previous administration lost around 1100 american lives with their strategy, while the current one has lost over 6000 (included servicemen and contractors in Iraq).
FG: So to correct your numbers, the previous administration lost around 1100 american lives with their strategy, while the current one has lost over 6000 (included servicemen and contractors in Iraq).
Yes, but you fail to consider all of the things that we've gained through the invasion of Iraq. Think about the unshakable stability of the Iraqi nation, the security of the oil supply, and the scarcity of terrorist attacks involving airplanes in NYC.
Bart:
"This bill would set a date certain (actually multiple dates) for retreat from and the surrender of Iraq to the enemy." Bart, coming from someone who seems to care a lot about the various legal categories that governmental actions during wartime fit into, this is an outrageous lie. You KNOW what a "surrender" is. A surrender is where troops lay down their arms and submit to capture. So why do you mendaciously lie and use the term "surrender" for what is clearly a withdrawal, not a surrender? Does all your vaunted concern for the laws of war go out the window when you can try to score a cheap political point against Democrats?
PMS Chicago:
You're right. I also forgot the strenghtening of our civil rights, our position of leadership in the free world, and the financial security of our economy.
Also, can we stop the insinuations of treason? "Aid and comfort to the enemy" is a phrase taken out of context-- it actually is adhering to the enemies, giving them aid and comfort, and it refers to people who explicitly take the side of the US' enemy during a war and aid the prosecution of a war against this country.
Again, for all Bart's concern about the laws of war, he shows total disregard for the actual law of treason when it gets in the way of smearing the Democrats. The Democrats are not giving aid and comfort to this country's enemies (assuming we actually know who our enemies are and who our friends are in Iraq-- they seem to change every few months). The Democrats love their country and are trying to get it out of a war that they think is a really bad idea. You have the right to think it is a good idea-- but insinuating that the Democrats are favoring terrorists in a war is despicable and shows you to be a contemptible human being. You should apologize for saying such a thing, and figure out a way to make your points without implying that those who disagree with you are traitors.
I know we took some terrorists attacks during the Clinton Administration, but do not recall anything close to 1100 killed. When did that happen?
EL,
You'd have to ask Bart--I just took his number and subtracted 9/11, because it was well into the new admin. If he would like to support his numbers, that is up to him.
jao your quotes really don't do it.
if you veto this bill, they may come back and just simply cut off funding. Wouldn't that be a legitimate exercise of a congressional authority, which is the power of the purse? But THIS BILL doesn't defund. I think they have the authority to defund, use their funding power But THIS BILL doesn't defund.
Dilan:
Also, can we stop the insinuations of treason? "Aid and comfort to the enemy" is a phrase taken out of context-- it actually is adhering to the enemies, giving them aid and comfort, and it refers to people who explicitly take the side of the US' enemy during a war and aid the prosecution of a war against this country. Indeed. If "giving aid and comfort" is all treason is, then apple pie is guilty of treason. Cheers,
Bart,
Pick a story. I've seen you claim repeatedly that we have delivered a comprehensive defeat to Al Qaeda during our time in Iraq. How is it then, that if, big if, this bill leads to redeployment, it would be a surrender?
Nona Nym,
Your cherry-picking really doesn't do it. You pieced together fragments of two different questions and answers. The prospect that "they may come back and just simply cut off funding" referred to a possible future vote on a different bill. Read the whole quotes in context. The bill Bush was talking about at that press conference -- which is essentially the bill before Congress today -- is the legislation about which he said, "The Congress is exercising its legitimate authority as it sees fit right now. I just disagree with their decisions." And in the WSJ interview, Bush was not only talking about total defunding but also about deployments and troop ceilings. Now, it's your turn to provide a quote where Bush explicitly asserts that Congress is exceeding its constitutional authority in this bill -- not just that he disagrees with the policy or asserts that Congress ought to defer as a political matter. I know that is your position, and you would like the President to make it his own. But show me where George W. Bush actually takes that position about this bill. So far, he has not done so. In fact, he has said he will veto it but has acknowledged congressional authority.
p.s. The White House issued an official statement after the House passed the supplemental appropriations bill, in which the President said he will veto it and why.
There was nary a hint that he asserts it is unconstitutional.
Fraud Guy said...
Bart De Palma says: "Counter terrorism is not simply sending in Rambo to surgically take out a terrorist leader and then quickly bugging out again so we can turn the channel and watch American Idol. We tried that during the last Administration and almost 4000 Americans were murdered between 1993 and 9/11." IIRC, 9/11 occurred during the current administration, about 9 months after they took over the office. That is true. The new Administration's foreign policy team just took over and had no opportunity to put anything in place. That being said, it does not appear that they took the threat any more seriously than the prior Administration until 9/11. The question now is whether the Dems still take the threat seriously. This bill does not indicate that they do. It also sounds like you are including incidents like the USS Cole et al. So to correct your numbers, the previous administration lost around 1100 american lives with their strategy, while the current one has lost over 6000 (included servicemen and contractors in Iraq). Between 1993 and 9/11, al Qaeda and its allies murdered roughly 4000 of our people in our country and overseas. I am counting anyone of any nationality killed in our country by the enemy as our responsibility. During that time, we killed or captured a handful of the enemy. Since 9/11, we have killed about 50,000 of the enemy and lost about 3,000 KIA. al Qaeda admitted to losing 4,000 in Iraq alone, which is probably low. I prefer the latter ratio to the former. As Mayor Guiliani correctly observes on the campaign trail, this is the difference between being on defense and offense.
Dilan said...
Bart: "This bill would set a date certain (actually multiple dates) for retreat from and the surrender of Iraq to the enemy." [T]his is an outrageous lie. You KNOW what a "surrender" is. A surrender is where troops lay down their arms and submit to capture. So why do you mendaciously lie and use the term "surrender" for what is clearly a withdrawal, not a surrender? No, "surrender" is the most accurate term I can think of. "Defeat" would be generally correct, but implies that the enemy defeated our military, which is not the case. This is a partisan political result. Surrender is the only term of which I can think which correctly states that the defeat intended by the Dems is self inflicted. One can surrender territory as well as armed forces. The Dems are proposing the former.
Dilan:
Also, can we stop the insinuations of treason? "Aid and comfort to the enemy" is a phrase taken out of context-- it actually is adhering to the enemies, giving them aid and comfort, and it refers to people who explicitly take the side of the US' enemy during a war and aid the prosecution of a war against this country. Providing aid and comfort to the enemy is only one element of treason. I am not accusing the Democrats of treason, I am accusing them of providing aid and comfort to the enemy. Without proof to the contrary, I have to assume that the Dems are surrendering Iraq to the enemy because they are either cluless or they simply do not care about the results of their policies.
Mike said...
Bart, Pick a story. I've seen you claim repeatedly that we have delivered a comprehensive defeat to Al Qaeda during our time in Iraq. How is it then, that if, big if, this bill leads to redeployment, it would be a surrender? No, I have repeatedly argued with support that we are winning in Iraq. I and the articles to which I have cited have not said the war is over. I am not as clueless as the Dems who claims that this is a "civil war" between Iraqis.
Bart, would you care to tell me where you get the 1,000 figure for Americans killed in terrorist attacks apart from 9/11. Because I don't remember anything close to that many.
Bart,
You are still including 9/11 in the totals for the Clinton administration, which would be the baseball equivalent of blaming today's loss on yesterday's pitcher. I can understand that you don't want your team to take the blame, but I believe that you are committing intellectual fraud by continuing to skew the numbers this way. You claim all of 1993 for Clinton, but exclude most of 2001 from Bush. Also, as Enlightened Layperson pointed out, you have not provided other provenance for your numbers (I won't dignify them with the term statistics until you have your sources out). You also claim that we have killed 50,000 of the "enemy" since 9/11. Does that include the Iraqi army--sitting ducks for an unneccesary war? Are you forgetting the 500K+ civilians who have died in Iraq due to direct and indirect effects of our invasion (statistically shown in the Lancet article)? That would increase your kill/kill ratio significantly. And you keep repeating the mantra that leaving Iraq is surrendering. There are so many ways that this statement is in error, especially as you claim the same thing happened in Vietnam (on several previous threads). I know you believe that once we left there, the Vietcong and their Communist enablers were able to go on and overthrow our allies in SE Asia and the Pacific, and took the war back to the US--oops, sorry that's what you think will happen if we leave Iraq just like we left Vietnam. Your historical precedent does not correlate or impress. We surrender territory--that is not ours. We surrender oil rights--that are not ours. We surrender prestige--that we already lost due to our sham reasons for the war. We will spend trillions of dollars for an unneccesary war and waste hundreds of thousands of lives. The Decider has already said that what congress is doing is not unconstitutional, but that they had better not "test [his] will". Damn, I thought people stopped talking like that in grade school. The administration's rationalizations are dishonest (like the extension of tours of duty that were announced before it was announced that they would be necessary because Bush would veto the funding bill that had not yet been passed), have been shown to be such on numerous occasions, and yet you still keep trying to come up with sophistic rationalizations of your own to explain the discrepancies, or just ignore them. If you my counsel in a DUI case, I would be grateful for your tenacity in the face of facts, but in the political realm, you keep crippling your case.
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Balkin, Living Originalism (Harvard University Press, 2011) Jason Mazzone, Copyfraud and Other Abuses of Intellectual Property Law (Stanford University Press, 2011) Richard W. Garnett and Andrew Koppelman, First Amendment Stories, (Foundation Press 2011) Jack M. Balkin, Constitutional Redemption: Political Faith in an Unjust World (Harvard University Press, 2011) Gerard Magliocca, The Tragedy of William Jennings Bryan: Constitutional Law and the Politics of Backlash (Yale University Press, 2011) Bernard Harcourt, The Illusion of Free Markets: Punishment and the Myth of Natural Order (Harvard University Press, 2010) Bruce Ackerman, The Decline and Fall of the American Republic (Harvard University Press, 2010) Balkinization Symposium on The Decline and Fall of the American Republic Ian Ayres. Carrots and Sticks: Unlock the Power of Incentives to Get Things Done (Bantam Books, 2010) Mark Tushnet, Why the Constitution Matters (Yale University Press 2010) Ian Ayres and Barry Nalebuff: Lifecycle Investing: A New, Safe, and Audacious Way to Improve the Performance of Your Retirement Portfolio (Basic Books, 2010) Jack M. Balkin, The Laws of Change: I Ching and the Philosophy of Life (2d Edition, Sybil Creek Press 2009) Brian Z. Tamanaha, Beyond the Formalist-Realist Divide: The Role of Politics in Judging (Princeton University Press 2009) Andrew Koppelman and Tobias Barrington Wolff, A Right to Discriminate?: How the Case of Boy Scouts of America v. James Dale Warped the Law of Free Association (Yale University Press 2009) Jack M. Balkin and Reva B. Siegel, The Constitution in 2020 (Oxford University Press 2009) Heather K. Gerken, The Democracy Index: Why Our Election System Is Failing and How to Fix It (Princeton University Press 2009) Mary Dudziak, Exporting American Dreams: Thurgood Marshall's African Journey (Oxford University Press 2008) David Luban, Legal Ethics and Human Dignity (Cambridge Univ. Press 2007) Ian Ayres, Super Crunchers: Why Thinking-By-Numbers is the New Way to be Smart (Bantam 2007) Jack M. Balkin, James Grimmelmann, Eddan Katz, Nimrod Kozlovski, Shlomit Wagman and Tal Zarsky, eds., Cybercrime: Digital Cops in a Networked Environment (N.Y.U. Press 2007) Jack M. Balkin and Beth Simone Noveck, The State of Play: Law, Games, and Virtual Worlds (N.Y.U. Press 2006) Andrew Koppelman, Same Sex, Different States: When Same-Sex Marriages Cross State Lines (Yale University Press 2006) Brian Tamanaha, Law as a Means to an End (Cambridge University Press 2006) Sanford Levinson, Our Undemocratic Constitution (Oxford University Press 2006) Mark Graber, Dred Scott and the Problem of Constitutional Evil (Cambridge University Press 2006) Jack M. Balkin, ed., What Roe v. Wade Should Have Said (N.Y.U. Press 2005) Sanford Levinson, ed., Torture: A Collection (Oxford University Press 2004) Balkin.com homepage Bibliography Conlaw.net Cultural Software Writings Opeds The Information Society Project BrownvBoard.com Useful Links Syllabi and Exams |