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Balkinization Symposiums: A Continuing List                                                                E-mail: Jack Balkin: jackbalkin at yahoo.com Bruce Ackerman bruce.ackerman at yale.edu Ian Ayres ian.ayres at yale.edu Corey Brettschneider corey_brettschneider at brown.edu Mary Dudziak mary.l.dudziak at emory.edu Joey Fishkin joey.fishkin at gmail.com Heather Gerken heather.gerken at yale.edu Abbe Gluck abbe.gluck at yale.edu Mark Graber mgraber at law.umaryland.edu Stephen Griffin sgriffin at tulane.edu Jonathan Hafetz jonathan.hafetz at shu.edu Jeremy Kessler jkessler at law.columbia.edu Andrew Koppelman akoppelman at law.northwestern.edu Marty Lederman msl46 at law.georgetown.edu Sanford Levinson slevinson at law.utexas.edu David Luban david.luban at gmail.com Gerard Magliocca gmaglioc at iupui.edu Jason Mazzone mazzonej at illinois.edu Linda McClain lmcclain at bu.edu John Mikhail mikhail at law.georgetown.edu Frank Pasquale pasquale.frank at gmail.com Nate Persily npersily at gmail.com Michael Stokes Paulsen michaelstokespaulsen at gmail.com Deborah Pearlstein dpearlst at yu.edu Rick Pildes rick.pildes at nyu.edu David Pozen dpozen at law.columbia.edu Richard Primus raprimus at umich.edu K. Sabeel Rahmansabeel.rahman at brooklaw.edu Alice Ristroph alice.ristroph at shu.edu Neil Siegel siegel at law.duke.edu David Super david.super at law.georgetown.edu Brian Tamanaha btamanaha at wulaw.wustl.edu Nelson Tebbe nelson.tebbe at brooklaw.edu Mark Tushnet mtushnet at law.harvard.edu Adam Winkler winkler at ucla.edu Compendium of posts on Hobby Lobby and related cases The Anti-Torture Memos: Balkinization Posts on Torture, Interrogation, Detention, War Powers, and OLC The Anti-Torture Memos (arranged by topic) Recent Posts Obama as Abraham Lincoln
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Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Obama as Abraham Lincoln
Mark Graber
Mark Twain in Letters From the Earth tells the story of a religious person who was advised by a priest to "imitate our Father in Heaven. Learn to be like him." After studying the Bible, the man in question decided that his best strategy would be to spread disease and pestilence, just as God apparently does in several passages in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. The priest, of course, indicated that this was not the right way to follow the path of the Lord, although he had some difficulty explaining which divine actions were a source of guidance and which were not.
Comments:
wonder, did Mark (no, not Twain) grab the Bush back in January of 2001 in similar fashion? I wonder how the quoted portion from Twain's "Letters from the Earth" might be applied to Bush's ventures into Afghanistan and Iraq? Twain, an anti-imperialist, was attacking religion in "Letters from the Earth" and its impact upon humanity, accomplished with much humor and insight. Sounds like Mark (no, not Twain) is working on a book on Lincoln questioning Lincoln's "alleged" greatness as a President and a man, requiring him to make a pre-emptive (a la Bush) strike on Obama.
Obama as Lincoln? One hopes that he won't respond to the Court ruling some initiative of his unconstitutional by ordering the Chief Justice jailed, but I suppose you never know...
Well I've said all along that my greatest hope for President Obama is simply that he will prove to be a man who is open to reason -- a trait which I believe President Lincoln had in abundance.
We've witnessed what unreasoning fanatics lost in hysteria can accomplish for eight years now. It's time to restore the rule of reason and law.
I think we should judge political figures -- and for that matter, people generally -- as we judge artists: not by their worst works, but by their best. Mozart was great not because of his weakest compositions, but because of his best.
Thus, we don't remember Lincoln because of his mistakes, but because of his successes. If we're going to follow a principle of imitatio Lincolni, we do need to be selective. I guess I have to add that my general principle doesn't apply to those few people -- Hitler, Stalin, etc. -- whose evil so overwhelms their good that the good is trivial.
@Mark Field,
I guess I disagree with your general principle; I'd argue we need a rule that applies across the board, even to history's monsters. We mustn't deny Stalin's or Hitler's innate humanity or how else shall we guard against the same tendencies in other mere mortals? We all are judged by the whole of our works (issues of faith notwithstanding). Lincoln the man was as flawed as Lincoln the myth was perfect. No surprise. My hope for the new president is that he aspires to live up to the ideals embodied in the Lincoln myth despite being mired in reality.
I guess Brett is talking about CJ Taney, who was not acting as the head of "the Court," but alone, ruling on habeas. The SC did not rule against Lincoln on any important issue.
I don't know of any evidence Lincoln had any serious intention to jail the guy, especially since he led no legions to enforce the ruling, which might not even have been final. In fact, as someone wrote in a new collection of essays about Lincoln, edited by Eric Foner, under Marbury, he might not even had the power to rule as he did. Anyway, the flubbed oath of office might serve as a metaphor -- no one is perfect; the key is excelling in the midst of imperfection. We had half of that lately; we need all of it.
Brett,
Are you thinking of the brouhaha surrounding the Merryman case in particular? If so, there are reasons to believe that Taney's decision in the case itself was a gross violation of the legal process--and perhaps so flagrant as not worthy of upholding by the other branches. It was a kangaroo court even by the standards of the Taney Court, and the decision was made by Taney--an inveterate racist and pro-Confederate jurist--alone. See for instance Rehnquist's examination of the case in All the Laws But One. On a more general note, I think the cries of "unconstitutional" action against Lincoln is for most part histrionic and even uninformed exaggerations, as the recent book by Mark Neely, among others, demonstrates. Finally, to the extent Lincoln's actions were "unconstitutional," I think the exigencies of the moment justified it in most cases--as his July 4th Address, as well as the authority of virtually every major political philosopher (including even the "idealist" Plato's Socrates--whom Thrasymachus deride for his snivelling naivete) attest.
Sounds like Mark (no, not Twain) is working on a book on Lincoln questioning Lincoln's "alleged" greatness as a President and a man, requiring him to make a pre-emptive (a la Bush) strike on Obama.
Interesting insight. I wouldn't say that the presumptive book would require him to strike at Obama: it may be the entire point.
"Interesting insight. I wouldn't say that the presumptive book would require him to strike at Obama: it may be the entire point."
Or a Mark (no, not Twain) Two-fer? If Obama were the entire point, perhaps Mark (no, not Twain) is switching careers to prognosticating history - pre-emptive historicism.
Mr. Graber just can't seem to do enough to criticize and demean our new president. The last time he compared Obama to Mao, and worried that his supporters would rip apart the White House, the unstated implication being that these would be his African-American supporters.
Now we get this ludicrous parsing of comments about Lincoln. Graber claims, seemingly absurdly, to be a liberal, but had I read this submission and the last one without knowing who wrote them, I would have strongly suspected Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, or perhaps William Kristol. Graber appears bent on doing all he can to demean Obama, and Obama's myriad supporters. Next we'll probably hear from Mr. Graber about the valiant war of southern independence. Ross Taylor
President Lincoln and President Obama share ancestors
for more on this see: http://familyforest.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/president-lincoln-and-president-obama-share-ancestors/ It was a great day in American History!
Ah, Charles, right on schedule. I suppose you will next argue that Roberts's gaffe means Obama is not properly sworn in, so Biden should be running things? Or haven't they broken that story on World Net Daily yet?
Robert Link:
Ah, Charles, right on schedule. I suppose you will next argue that Roberts's gaffe means Obama is not properly sworn in, so Biden should be running things? Or haven't they broken that story on World Net Daily yet? Only fly in the ointment there: Joseph Robinette [what kind of name is that, anyway?] Biden hasn't proved to the satisfaction of LittleFreepGoofballs and ClownHall that he's a "natural born U.S. citizen" (in triplicate, along with sworn testimony of eyewitnesses to his birth), so he's also a fraud, a phony, and prolly a Terra-ist to boot. My, what a Constitutional fustercluck we've gotten ourselves into. For kicks, check this out.... ;-) Cheers,
Ross Taylor wrote, "The last time he compared Obama to Mao, and worried that his supporters would rip apart the White House, the unstated implication being that these would be his African-American supporters."
As a sucker for punishment, may I ask where I could find these comments from Mr. Graber?
Not at all, Robert and Arne. There's never been any question about Acting President Biden's "natural birth" citizenship. Add to that, of course, most Constitutional Law experts would say, just to be safe, Obama should retake the oath of office.
Allow me to revise and extend my remarks then:
There's never been any question about Acting President Biden's citizenship, until Arne just tried to make some lame point by questioning it at 1:50 PM on January 21, 2009. Everyone else (including every right-wing wacko) accepts that Biden was born in Scranton, USA, the son of a blue-collar car salesman.
Nope. Not a typo either. You are mixing apples (legitimate questions about Obama's birthplace) with oranges (illegitimate questions about Biden's birthplace).
There are reasons why some posts don't have comments enabled. It's not even profanity per se, I'd reckon, but truly personal attack that most clearly crosses the line.
I invite everyone to up the ante a bit. Think about it, not only are our hosts professors at the finest schools, but one of them has gone on to work for the new administration. Woudln't it be nice to drag the caliber of our comments up to that level? I've failed that criterion as often as the next guy, so feel free to hold my feet to the fire when I slip. Meanwhile, lets all try to make this a place we're proud to have potential future employers and clients read. Peace, rl
Arne,
I'm happy to pimp your site, but that's totally separate from what I'm sure is a sufficient reminder, "word to the wise" style, here. "For a good time browse http://leastdangerousbranch.blogspot.com/2009/01/justice-oprah.html"
More generally, I suspect, successful presidencies are a bit sui generis. Imitating Lincoln or Washington may be a good recipe for invoking symbols that will be useful for a successful presidency. Nevertheless, at the end of the day, Obama will be judged by his distinctive qualities and practices and not to the extent he imitated Lincoln or anyone else. Which Lincoln he imitates will be far more interesting and important than mere invocation of the sixteenth president's most famous words.
Bingo! The great Presidents, like Lincoln, the two Roosevelts and Reagan, were their own men and did not feel the need to imitate predecessors to boost their own standing. Then again, when you have accomplished nothing of note in your career, perhaps you need the assist.
Robert Link:
I'm really not interested in steering discussion there for my own nefarious purposes. Really. I was offering it up as a sacrificial site in the interest of inveigling "Chuckles" here into abandoning his spew here and putting it on a more appropriate (and more appropriately-toned) site. Then again, we could push this site as an appropriate spot for further "discussion" with "Chuckles". I suspect it could use the hits. ;-) Cheers,
"Bart" DeCutNPaste:
Jon Stewart makes the devastating case that Obama echoes Bush. I notice on your web site, you claim the "liberal media" is drawing parallels between Dubya and Obama, citing Stewart's send-up. Hate to point it out to you, but Stewart is a comic, and his job is to make fun of people. Left, right, whatever. Agreed, Dubya made it seem easy, but now he's on to the new targets. Stewart has in fact in the past pointed out (vociferously) that it's not his job to accurately convey the news, and that he'd prefer if the actual news media would farkin' do their job so that he is not left with the unwarranted burden of being the "best" news source in town. That being said, its' easy to do the cut'n'paste of the speeches and look for the similar parts. But a fair analysis (and I[m sure you want to be fair, "Bart", and not just flog your wet dreams that Obama is going to be "Dubya II" despite the evidence otherwise) would look at what was the same and what was different Here's E.J. Dionne's look at the speech, including this little tidbit for you, "Bart": "One of the wondrous aspects of Obama's inaugural address is the extent to which those on the left and those on the right both claimed our new president as their own." And this: "President Obama intends to use conservative values for progressive ends. He will cast extreme individualism as an infantile approach to politics that must be supplanted by a more adult sense of personal and collective responsibility. He will honor government's role in our democracy and not degrade it. He wants America to lead the world, but as much by example as by force. "And in trying to do all these things, he will confuse a lot of people." People that see what they want to see and that aren't paying attention. Here's another person's take on the speech: President Obama's inauguration was historic in its own right; however, elements of his speech mimicked George W. Bush's hawkish tone. "When Obama, for example, stated that, 'We will not apologize for our way of life nor will we waver in its defense,' and then went on to talk about protecting freedom around the world, one doesn't have to remember too far back to recall this same Bush rhetoric in regards to 'why they hate us.' According to Bush, the terrorists hate us for our freedom, not our ongoing presence in the Middle East or our unwavering support for Israel, but rather our fancy cars and materialism. "It's this ignorance that keeps history repeating itself, and if Obama is bringing hope and change with him to the White House, then let this kind of rhetoric be kept solely to appease that part of the population still skeptical of his willingness to defend against terrorism." IOW, to get folks like you to STFU and play nice. You won't, though. Cheers,
President Lincoln and President Obama share ancestors:
Post a Comment
http://familyforest.wordpress.com Also Obama's presidential genes were reported early on in Feb 2007 by the Associated Press: http://www.familyforest.com/inthenews.html
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