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Balkinization Symposiums: A Continuing List                                                                E-mail: Jack Balkin: jackbalkin at yahoo.com Bruce Ackerman bruce.ackerman at yale.edu Ian Ayres ian.ayres at yale.edu Corey Brettschneider corey_brettschneider at brown.edu Mary Dudziak mary.l.dudziak at emory.edu Joey Fishkin joey.fishkin at gmail.com Heather Gerken heather.gerken at yale.edu Abbe Gluck abbe.gluck at yale.edu Mark Graber mgraber at law.umaryland.edu Stephen Griffin sgriffin at tulane.edu Jonathan Hafetz jonathan.hafetz at shu.edu Jeremy Kessler jkessler at law.columbia.edu Andrew Koppelman akoppelman at law.northwestern.edu Marty Lederman msl46 at law.georgetown.edu Sanford Levinson slevinson at law.utexas.edu David Luban david.luban at gmail.com Gerard Magliocca gmaglioc at iupui.edu Jason Mazzone mazzonej at illinois.edu Linda McClain lmcclain at bu.edu John Mikhail mikhail at law.georgetown.edu Frank Pasquale pasquale.frank at gmail.com Nate Persily npersily at gmail.com Michael Stokes Paulsen michaelstokespaulsen at gmail.com Deborah Pearlstein dpearlst at yu.edu Rick Pildes rick.pildes at nyu.edu David Pozen dpozen at law.columbia.edu Richard Primus raprimus at umich.edu K. Sabeel Rahmansabeel.rahman at brooklaw.edu Alice Ristroph alice.ristroph at shu.edu Neil Siegel siegel at law.duke.edu David Super david.super at law.georgetown.edu Brian Tamanaha btamanaha at wulaw.wustl.edu Nelson Tebbe nelson.tebbe at brooklaw.edu Mark Tushnet mtushnet at law.harvard.edu Adam Winkler winkler at ucla.edu Compendium of posts on Hobby Lobby and related cases The Anti-Torture Memos: Balkinization Posts on Torture, Interrogation, Detention, War Powers, and OLC The Anti-Torture Memos (arranged by topic) Recent Posts Obama, the Court, and "Redistribution"
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Saturday, November 01, 2008
Obama, the Court, and "Redistribution"
Mary L. Dudziak
Rather than focusing on actual policy differences in the waning days of this election year, the McCain campaign and its supporters are up in arms over a 2001 discussion of constitutional history on Chicago Public Radio. McCain campaign economic advisor Douglas Holtz-Eakin claimed that on the program "Barack Obama expressed his regret that the Supreme Court hadn't been more 'radical' and described as a 'tragedy' the Court's refusal to take up 'the issues of redistribution of wealth.' No wonder he wants to appoint judges that legislate from the bench." Posted 7:20 PM by Mary L. Dudziak [link]
Comments:
thank you, Mary.
and here I had thought that the notorious redistribution issue was about the progressive tax structure. but the power of the Republicans to take things out of context and keep them there is mindbogglingly.
Isn't taxation, by its very nature, a redistribution of wealth? In fact, isn't that the point of taxation, to redistribute benefits, to purchase civilization? Taxes paid and benefits returned are never proportional. The Republican cries of "redistibution" are deeply dishonest, but how shocking is that?
What would America look like without taxes and in effect requiring individuals to address and pay for what they use, require or desire for themselves? Rather than a redistribution of wealth, fair and adequate taxation results in a distribution of civilization and in a secular sense application of Judeo-Christian principles.
There is also nothing from the interview to suggest that Obama was not using the term redistribution in its classic sense of stealing wealth from one group of citizens to give it to another another.
One can reasonably argue that Mr. Obama's current plans indicate that he was in fact using the term redistribution in its classic socialist sense. Mr. Obama's tax plans are redistribution in the purest form - raising taxes on a minority to finance the cutting of checks to those who do not pay taxes. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Furthermore, in an unguarded moment with Joe the Plumber, Obama made it clear that the purpose of his tax policy is to "spread the wealth around." This may not be a particularly radical proposition in academia, but it does make Obama a radical departure to the left in US presidential politics.
So let me get this straight Bart: a 35% rate is Country First, but 39% (the same rate under Clinton) is socialism? And you think the "argument" that Obama is socialist passes the laugh test?
Ha ha, Bart is reduced to bald non sequiturs. The guy has verbal horror vacui, or as we used to say in high school, "it's like they are physically incapable of not talking."
Reading the cited excerpts and discussion in the post, only, the sense I find is that of the historian academic addressing the development of political dialog over a span of a few decades, in cautious terms, at that. The interviewee's career in the subsequent seven years evidenced the wider grasp of the historical process in which he has participated in current times, though with connectivity to the door opening initiatives which afford easier access to the teleologic dialogs than in those referenced decades which harbored a more strident interlocution among numerous interested factions some more visionary than others proved to be. I, too, assessed at the time the mediazation of events from that epoch informed a journalistic theme of opsis, yet, as the author similarly observes, the dialog dating from the time of Barack Obama's professorship, emphasizes constitutional parameters of the history process. If Miranda was prelude, Bakke was a foreshadow of neojournalistic oversimplification of the processes a series of congresses were willing to legislate into existence for the purpose of opening doors important to revitalization of the integrity of the goals the constitution envisioned. It would be fun to delve for some now treasury secretary Paulson remarks from a similarly vintaged interview concerning the inverse representations encapsulated in the framing with the term redistribution, especially given the government's new program to buy bankshares. Apart from the facets of banks and stock issuing entities, there are ongoing court venues examining distributive processes in bankruptcies, for example. Perhaps Barack Obama in the year of the conversation quoted, 2001, was not ready to open a verbal interchange with the interviewer, concerning the structure and outcomes in bankruptcy courts at that time, perhaps too soon following the implosion of the surge to create new internet tech companies; yet, that might be a topic in which the 111th congress may show some willingness to investigate for opportunities to reset priorities to protect people currently facing difficulties with pensions, real estate ownership continuity, and similar classically more time protracted elements of personal finance. But maybe these issues remain too abstruse to address by application of an age worn concept from the radical right's days in meetings with bolsheviks.
"In fact, isn't that the point of taxation, to redistribute benefits, to purchase civilization?"
No, that's what the people who levy them would have you believe. The point is to purchase votes. If we were truly civilized, I like to think that extracting money from people by scarcely veiled threats of violence wouldn't play so large a part in our economy. Taxation is the price we pay for NOT being civilized.
Apparently Brett has a solution for a nation of 300 million+ residents to function as a civilized society without taxation. Might this solution consist of voluntary contributions for infrastructure, etc, that many of the 300 million+ rely upon? Or is there some other solution for 300 million+ that would not constitute an extraction based upon threats of violence? Maybe the solution is the individual right to bear arms, with all 300 million+ armed to the teeth to prevent taxation. Presumably Brett has enough moulah and arms to protect his moulah without publicly funded police.
"To purchase votes"? Like for hospitals, schools, etc? For national defense? For national disasters?
If we were truly civilized, I like to think that extracting money from people by scarcely veiled threats of violence wouldn't play so large a part in our economy. Taxation is the price we pay for NOT being civilized.
There you have it, the perfect distillation of the ideology that has brought us to the brink of disaster. I don't think any argument I could make would make an impression on this way of thinking, a love of a zero-sum society where the only motivating factor is to take as much for oneself as is possible. What a beautiful world Brett posits.
Neil Brooks, a Canadian law professor, wrote "Taxes are the basis of civilization" published in the Winnepeg Free Press on 12/23/05, available at:
http://osgoode.yorku.ca/media2.nsf/5457ed39bc56dbfd852571e900728656/73eef396d217f906852570eb006f8da4!OpenDocument that details well beyond Justice Holmes' taxes as the price we pay for civilization. My initial comment referenced "fair and adequate taxation." While the power to tax may be the power to destroy, in no way have I or do I suggest that the power to tax be so employed. When I first took a tax course, there was a 90% bracket. There was also an excess profits tax to address WW II abuses by government contractors. Slowly, tax brackets were reduced. Now, all of a sudden, even to the shock and surprise of Alan Greenspan, we have a serious financial crisis that if not properly addressed will be passed onto our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Can a taxless society address this crisis? Sometimes taxes are too high. Sometimes they are too low. Let's wish that like Goldilocks we can have taxes that are just right. But can we continue with guns, butter and tax cuts?
Bart said, "...to finance those who do not pay taxes". I am always taken aback that conservatives have such little problem with sales taxes (which virtually everyone pays) to the point that they say there are people who pay no taxes. Sales taxes, perhaps because they're regressive, just don't count. Perhaps if the income tax was a flat regressive tax you wouldn't hear a peep from conservatives about it. In any case, Bart, sales taxes are taxes so your statement applies to virtually no one. Even totally dysfunctional, schizophrenic patients (the "Paul" in Bart's world who we steal from the "Peter" (the extremely wealthy)so that they can food to eat among other things)) in mental hospitals buy items and pay taxes.
If we were truly civilized, I like to think that extracting money from people by scarcely veiled threats of violence wouldn't play so large a part in our economy. Taxation is the price we pay for NOT being civilized.
As a rule, libertarians haven't grown out of their diapers. They prefer to fantasize about a "truly civilized" world where everyone behaves nicely and there isn't any need for "government" because everyone is nice and behaves nicely. Wouldn't that be nice.
"There you have it, the perfect distillation of the ideology that has brought us to the brink of disaster."
We were brought to the brink of disaster by (David) Friedman style anarcho-capitalism? Somehow I don't think so.
" ... (David) Friedman style anarcho-capitalism .... "
Is this Brett's solution for the elimination of taxes?
There is also nothing from the interview to suggest that Obama was not using the term redistribution in its classic sense of stealing wealth from one group of citizens to give it to another another.
Post a Comment
That's not the classic definition of redistribution. Redistribution involves the collection and culturally-guided reallocation of goods, services, and/or tokens thereof. One could argue that labeling any such movement a "theft" is to embrace Marxism--you might as well start picketing factories to recoup the stolen value of the workers' sold product. The point made above about 39% being the tipping point into scoialism is instructive; redistribution is a part of our society and has probably been a part of human societies for as long as there have been human societies.
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