Balkinization: Troops for McCain/Palin's Russian Front

Comments:

I think she said that they should be admitted to NATO, and that if attacked, we might have to come to their defense, since that's what NATO means, after all. So nothing wrong there. Besides that, though, I admit that she's an idiot.

# posted by

Asher : 7:39 PM

Governor Palin, no doubt with the approval of the McCain campaign and Bush administration, has declared we should consider going to war with Russia over Georgia.

Palin said nothing of the sort. The ABC preview headline distorted her response concerning extending NATO membership to Ukraine and Georgia. Try reading the actual quote:

GIBSON: Would you favor putting Georgia and Ukraine in NATO?

PALIN: Ukraine, definitely, yes. Yes, and Georgia.

GIBSON: Because Putin has said he would not tolerate NATO incursion into the Caucasus.

PALIN: Well, you know, the Rose Revolution, the Orange Revolution, those actions have showed us that those democratic nations, I believe, deserve to be in NATO.

Putin thinks otherwise. Obviously, he thinks otherwise, but...

GIBSON: And under the NATO treaty, wouldn't we then have to go to war if Russia went into Georgia?

PALIN: Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help.

But NATO, I think, should include Ukraine, definitely, at this point and I think that we need to -- especially with new leadership coming in on January 20, being sworn on, on either ticket, we have got to make sure that we strengthen our allies, our ties with each one of those NATO members.

We have got to make sure that that is the group that can be counted upon to defend one another in a very dangerous world today.

GIBSON: And you think it would be worth it to the United States, Georgia is worth it to the United States to go to war if Russia were to invade.

PALIN: What I think is that smaller democratic countries that are invaded by a larger power is something for us to be vigilant against. We have got to be cognizant of what the consequences are if a larger power is able to take over smaller democratic countries.

And we have got to be vigilant. We have got to show the support, in this case, for Georgia. The support that we can show is economic sanctions perhaps against Russia, if this is what it leads to.

It doesn't have to lead to war and it doesn't have to lead, as I said, to a Cold War, but economic sanctions, diplomatic pressure, again, counting on our allies to help us do that in this mission of keeping our eye on Russia and Putin and some of his desire to control and to control much more than smaller democratic countries.

His mission, if it is to control energy supplies, also, coming from and through Russia, that's a dangerous position for our world to be in, if we were to allow that to happen.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 7:40 PM

Nobody wants war with Russia, but it IS possible for the long term alternative to be worse. Want another cold war, when Putin has swallowed enough of his neighbors to feel up to directly confronting us?

# posted by

Brett : 8:06 PM

I am watching the ABC news broadcast of the Palin interview and they have hacked her answers to barely coherent snippets. Most of the transcripted response I posted above was left on the cutting room floor. After ABC's misleading internet headline, I wonder why the part putting the lie to that headline was left out?

In stark contrast, when O'Reilly interviewed Obama, all of his responses were included and played over multiple nights.

McCain and Palin should simply boycott the Dem press and go on Fox or PBS.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 8:14 PM

Bart De Palma said regarding Palin's "war with Russia":

"Palin said nothing of the sort. The ABC preview headline distorted her response concerning extending NATO membership to Ukraine and Georgia. Try reading the actual quote:

GIBSON: And under the NATO treaty, wouldn't we then have to go to war if Russia went into Georgia?

PALIN: Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help."

It seems to me that she actually did say war with Russia is expected if another NATO member is attacked. Palin said, "Perhaps so. . . " To me that means, YES.

This lady would take us into a war with Russia because that hot head Saakashvili fired missiles and artillery at a civilian population in South Ossetia that wanted nothing to do with Georgia.

And Bart De Palma wants to finesse it!

The Republicans win with McCain and Palin. All America is cast into never-ending war with "enemies." We can't let this happen.

# posted by

BOB EDER : 8:15 PM

How can anyone run for VP and know nothing about the infamous and notorious Bush Doctrine of "preventive war?" Where has this Sarah Palin been for the last five years? And this lady honestly thinks she is competent to be elected to high office and possibly take over if anything happens to old John. Put her know-nothing mind set about the Bush doctrine together with her acceptance of the notion that we might or should go to war with Russia over something like the Saakashvili attack on South Ossetia. As Lincoln Chafee has said, this lady is a "wacko."

# posted by

BOB EDER : 8:34 PM

Roberto:

Professor Graber stated erroneously that: "Governor Palin...has declared we should consider going to war with Russia over Georgia." Governor Palin never said or implied that she was considering sending troops to liberate Georgia from its Russian occupation as we did Kuwait from Iraqi occupation.

In fact, Gibson set up a rather absurd scenario where Russia invades Georgia in the future after it joins NATO when the Russian invasion has already occurred and the occupation of parts of the country is permanent. Then he asked Palin whether such an invasion of Georgia would compel the US to go to war under what is presumably NATO mutual defense requirements. Palin correctly responded "perhaps" and later rattled off a series of alternatives to war. The alternatives did not make it onto the ABC World News Program tonight.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 8:41 PM

"Bart" DeHypocrite:

when O'Reilly interviewed Obama, all of his responses were included and played over multiple nights.

You RWers are in no position to complain about people's quotes being cut out of context. Hell, you've made an artform (and a fake kerfluffle) of snipping out relevant words from the middle of a quote....

Cheers,

# posted by

Arne Langsetmo : 9:25 PM

"Bart" DeClueless:

Professor Graber stated erroneously that: "Governor Palin...has declared we should consider going to war with Russia over Georgia."

It's right there in the stuff you posted, "Bart":

GIBSON: And under the NATO treaty, wouldn't we then have to go to war if Russia went into Georgia?

PALIN: Perhaps so.

I'd say that's "considering" it. WTF did you think that meant?

Cheers,

# posted by

Arne Langsetmo : 9:30 PM

Bart:

A lot of conservatives are assuming that if Georgia is in NATO, Russia doesn't invade.

That's a huge wager-- the credibility of the entire NATO alliance against the possibility that Russia might call our bluff. If they did, would we risk a nuclear war and a war with one of the toughest armies in the world and send troops? Or would we not do so and confirm that the NATO treaty promise is meaningless?

It seems to me that the smart thing to do is not to make the wager.

# posted by

Dilan : 9:45 PM

dilan:

This is public diplomacy.

Russia militarily punished Georgia for aligning itself with the United States and seeking membership in NATO. If we appear to abandon our allies when a newly resurgent Russia starts rattling its saber, those nations under threat from the Bear will no longer be allies.

Even if the campaign to include Georgia in NATO ends up being lip service, a near certainty since Old Europe will never go along, it will still serve the purpose to reassure our allies in Eastern Europe.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 10:32 PM

In fact, Gibson set up a rather absurd scenario...

I know, just like the ticking time bomb plot from 24.

# posted by

Fraud Guy : 10:57 PM

This comment has been removed by the author.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 11:37 PM

Gibson also misquoted Palin's remarks to her church in support of the troops and, when Palin politely called him on it, Gibson insisted that it was an "exact quote." While there is some speculation that Gibson was lazy and simply used a previously debunked AP misquote, ABC played a selectively edited snippet from the video of her church talk so they cannot claim ignorance about what she actually said there.

Despite the likely willful misrepresentation, Palin had perhaps her best moment of the night explaining Abraham Lincoln and basic Christian world view to the obviously ignorant Gibson.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 11:40 PM

I am watching the ABC news broadcast of the Palin interview and they have hacked her answers to barely coherent snippets.

They just broadcast a less edited version on Nightline. I agree that it's not doing the nation any service to edit her first remarks to the press since being nominated into even greater incoherence than they already had on their own. Pretty disappointing of ABC. And you're right about his misreading of her comments in church (though if she weren't completely inarticulate, people wouldn't have been so easily confused). But it was a disastrous interview.

# posted by

Asher : 12:10 AM

Bart:
....when Palin politely called him on it, Gibson insisted that it was an "exact quote."

Is the idea that a VP (soon to be President) would never have to deal with hard misinformation in public? Clinton would have (and has) laid the smack down when lame-o's like Gibson are doing the "neener" thing. I can't find anything in Google, can you link us to any of your comments about the Chris Wallace interview of Clinton in 2006?

Besides all that, you're quibbling in details. She ate the wrong end of the moose tonight.

The funniest thing is going to be tomorrow when all of the McCalin peeps start telling us what she really meant, like many mocked Obama supporters for doing earlier this year.

# posted by

Eric : 1:42 AM

tray said...

BD: I am watching the ABC news broadcast of the Palin interview and they have hacked her answers to barely coherent snippets.

They just broadcast a less edited version on Nightline.

Less edited but still selectively edited. ABC still left out Palin's explanation of the alternatives to war to falsely make it sound like Plain wants to go to war.

The Good Morning America segment is also a hoot.

Gibson: Let's talk about environmental policy because we have had significant differences with John McCain"

Charlie, do you think you are Barack Obama in a debate? You are a reporter. Ostensibly you do not come into this with an agenda...right.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 9:35 AM

Less edited but still selectively edited. ABC still left out Palin's explanation of the alternatives to war to falsely make it sound like Plain wants to go to war.

They did nothing of the kind. The segment they showed does nothing more than show that Palin is willing to go to war with Russia over Georgia. The idea that she is eager to go to war with Russia is just a fantasy of yours.

# posted by

Bartbuster : 9:48 AM

11. All the folks who gush enthusiasm over the war in Iraq but gosh they themselves can't serve, oh if only they could.

12. Every neocon who stated that our little adventure in the sand would go quickly and well.

13. Every "independent military expert" who talked on TV and who was not in fact independent.

14. Every executive of every TV network who enabled this little farce.

15. Every "news" report that passed an administration claim along uncritically.

16. Every neocon or plain old con who got deferments or otherwise avoided the draft.

17. Every appointed administration official responsible in any way for regulating banking, lending, mortgages, or financial integrity.

18. Every DoJ interviewer who did political vetting for jobs.

19. Every administration interviewer for jobs in Iraq who did political vetting.

20. Anyone in a management position in Blackwater or any other hired gun.

They'd none of them be missed!

# posted by

jpk : 12:02 PM

"I am watching the ABC news broadcast of the Palin interview and they have hacked her answers to barely coherent snippets."

Watching the declining size of media quotes over the years, I would not be astonished if, in another decade, they were quoting mere syllables. It's already exceptional when they quote an entire sentence intact.

You see, if they quote at too great a length, viewers are able to form opinions about whether the media take on what was said is accurate. Less actual information means greater freedom to interpret...

# posted by

Brett : 12:41 PM

I've noticed that CNN has been reserving a few minutes at the end of each hour (maybe not every hour, but often enough that I've seen it repeated) where they show one of the candidates speaking for a minute or two without adding commentary--which is an eternity nowadays. They show Obama one hour and McCain the next--it was something I really hadn't expected, since there's usually quite a tilt.

I can't stand the Headline News channel, though, for the reasons Brett mentions. "Coverage" of a speech involves a few tiny phrases cut from different portions of the talk that almost make a sentence when put together. Scary stuff.

I much prefer reading the full transcripts of public speeches/debates and, thankfully, most of the big outlets have those available on their sites somewhere.

# posted by

PMS_CC : 12:56 PM

Gibson: Let's talk about environmental policy because we have had significant differences with John McCain

Bart, all that happened there is that he said we when he meant to say you.

# posted by

Asher : 1:17 PM

tray said...

Gibson: Let's talk about environmental policy because we have had significant differences with John McCain

Bart, all that happened there is that he said we when he meant to say you.

Perhaps. In that case, was this a slip of the tongue or the proverbial Freudian slip?

In any case, after the "fair and balanced" treatment she received at ABC, Palin is unsurprisingly giving her next interview to Fox News next week.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 1:27 PM

As a counterpoint with Gibson's interview with Palin, folks might like to watch Gibson's campaign commercial/interview introducing Obama to the nation and then read the transcript of the gushing and fawning Gibson in his interview of Barack Obama when he clinched the Dem nomination. For easy comparison, ABC actually has clips of the Palin interview on the same page.

# posted by

Bart DePalma : 3:36 PM

You're wrong, he said 'you.' Listen here:

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5786801

# posted by

Asher : 3:37 PM

And Gibson was very tough on Obama in that one debate, bart. I don't agree with Obama on anything, but I can't in good conscience vote for McCain anymore. Even Arne would make a better Vice President than Palin.

# posted by

Asher : 3:39 PM

When Wellington thrashed Bonaparte,
As every child can tell,
The House of Peers, throughout the war,
Did nothing in particular,
And did it very well:

# posted by

Mourad : 6:03 PM

Tray:

Even Arne would make a better Vice President than Palin.

Thanks for the -- ummm, 'compliment' -- but what you say isn't true (unless Palin as Veep is worse than no Veep at all). I suffer the same disadvantage as the other Caleefun'ya Arnie.

Cheers,

# posted by

Arne Langsetmo : 3:34 AM

what you say isn't true (unless Palin as Veep is worse than no Veep at all

Oh, she's worse than no Veep at all. Did you see the interview? We'd be better off having the succession go straight to Pelosi, and I can't stand her.

# posted by

Asher : 8:16 PM

I suffer the same disadvantage as the other Caleefun'ya Arnie.

You suffer from several allegations of sexual misconduct, too?! :)

# posted by

PMS_CC : 3:19 AM

PMS_Chicago:

[Arne]LI suffer the same disadvantage as the other Caleefun'ya Arnie.

You suffer from several allegations of sexual misconduct, too?! :)

I wasn't naturally born. ;-)

Cheers,

# posted by

Arne Langsetmo : 1:13 PM

Arne,

Were you "from your mother's womb untimely ripped'"?

(can't pass up a intro like that)

# posted by

Fraud Guy : 10:08 PM