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Thursday, August 07, 2008
The One Country Where Torture is So Likely That Even the United States Will Not Transfer a Detainee There
Marty Lederman
It's none other than the host of the Summer Olympics, China.
Comments:
is it really fair to refuse to allow Parhat's release into the United States simply because China "is keenly interested in [his] return"?
No. This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
OK, but what, then, should the government do with Parhat? He is asking the habeas court to order his release into the United States. The government is strongly resisting that remedy, because, as DOJ argues, "[i]t is undisputed that petitioner traveled to Afghanistan to receive military training from a camp affiliated with enemies of this country." In fact, that is not undisputed at all: Parhat claims that the camp had little if anything to do with any "enemies of [the United States]." And more to the point, the whole thrust of the court of appeals' opinion was that the government had failed to demonstrate that Parhat's experience at that camp was evidence that he is someone likely to engage in belligerent acts against the U.S.: Parhat has never participated in, or planned, or even supported, any hostile action against the United States or its allies.
Let me get this straight... You are arguing that the US should be compelled to grant asylum to any captured terrorist whose group is not currently warring against the United States if the terrorist's home country has any history of torture? Given that most terrorists hale from countries with a history of torture, our troops are then presented with the Catch 22 choice of either capturing the terrorist only to grant him asylum in the US or to decline to capture any terrorist you are not absolutely sure is currently warring against the United States. Have you seriously thought this through? This is yet another argument for treating terrorists like pirates and brigands, who are considered to be at war against the entire human race and not just a single country.
.... torture is "more likely than not" ....
I honestly don't know how one can honestly define the above. First what do they mean by torture? Yoo/Bybee definition? Meaning waterboarding, fingernail pulling, dogs, testicle crushing, etc. OK? Second, Yoo recognizable torture (i.e. physical abuse to the point of death) is rare even in the worst hellholes out there (Abu-Ghraib, Bagram, Syrian jails (?), etc). Clearly nowhere near 50% probability required by the State Department. I guess they insisted on inflated threshold to enable them to send people to Guantanano, Abu-Ghraib, Bagram and similar places without running afoul of their own rules. ---- BTW as much as I appreciated questioning of Lt. Col. Beaver (former military cop, turned chief legal talent re interrogation techniques in Guantanamo and the author of the DoD's most famous torture memorandum) by the Senate Armed Services Committee I would very much like them to bring in Capt. C. Wood of Bagram (military intelligence person responsible for the place) for extensive questioning for these reasons: a) Bagram was universally recognized as one of the most abusive/deadly places in all of our theaters of operations out there. b) C. Wood's reputation in the Army seems almost as bad as Japanese and Nazi POW camp commanders in the II World War (Beaver claimed she was "shocked" to see her advising Karpinski in Abu-Graib!) and c) Wood was responsible for Bagram's Standard Operating Procedures apparently so bad that even Beaver found them conscience shocking. Given the character of Mrs. Beaver "conscience" we need to see those Bagram SOPs Sen. Levin!
This is yet another argument for treating terrorists like pirates and brigands, who are considered to be at war against the entire human race and not just a single country.
Let me get this straight. Because some people see a conundrum as to what to do with certain detainees, we should then conclude, even if contrary to fact, that these people are "pirates and brigands" and a danger to us, so that we have a legal "excuse" to lock them up indefinitely? We can't figure it out, so we slander them, detain them, and they lose?!?!? But I'd consider "Bart"'s 'final solution' here to be a bit more compelling if indeed he was pushing for the indefinite detainment of all such "terrorists", "freedom fighters", CIA agents, despotic dictators and their security forces, etc. who have fought in "dirty wars" (often with our support if not direct control). Cheers,
You are arguing that the US should be compelled to grant asylum to any captured terrorist
He's not a terrorist. No conviction.
No asylum for terrorists. He didn't go to Afghanistan as a tourist to enjoy the scenery.
Post a Comment
Deport him to China. The last thing the United States needs to do is to provide a haven for terrorists attacking the Chinese government. We invaded Afghanistan because that country sheltered Bin Laden and friends while they plotted mass murder in the U.S. And now we are going to provide aid and comfort to someone who trained in Afghanistan to to bring mass murder to china? Deport him. Deport him now.
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Andrew Koppelman and Tobias Barrington Wolff, A Right to Discriminate?: How the Case of Boy Scouts of America v. James Dale Warped the Law of Free Association (Yale University Press 2009)
Jack M. Balkin and Reva B. Siegel, The Constitution in 2020 (Oxford University Press 2009)
Heather K. Gerken, The Democracy Index: Why Our Election System Is Failing and How to Fix It (Princeton University Press 2009)
Mary Dudziak, Exporting American Dreams: Thurgood Marshall's African Journey (Oxford University Press 2008) Neil Netanel, Copyright's Paradox (Oxford Univ. Press 2008)
David Luban, Legal Ethics and Human Dignity (Cambridge Univ. Press 2007) Ian Ayres, Super Crunchers: Why Thinking-By-Numbers is the New Way to be Smart (Bantam 2007)
Jack M. Balkin, James Grimmelmann, Eddan Katz, Nimrod Kozlovski, Shlomit Wagman and Tal Zarsky, eds., Cybercrime: Digital Cops in a Networked Environment (N.Y.U. Press 2007)
Jack M. Balkin and Beth Simone Noveck, The State of Play: Law, Games, and Virtual Worlds (N.Y.U. Press 2006)
Andrew Koppelman, Same Sex, Different States: When Same-Sex Marriages Cross State Lines (Yale University Press 2006)
Brian Tamanaha, Law as a Means to an End (Cambridge University Press 2006)
Sanford Levinson, Our Undemocratic Constitution (Oxford University Press 2006)
Mark Graber, Dred Scott and the Problem of Constitutional Evil (Cambridge University Press 2006)
Jack M. Balkin, ed., What Roe v. Wade Should Have Said (N.Y.U. Press 2005)
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