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Balkinization Symposiums: A Continuing List                                                                E-mail: Jack Balkin: jackbalkin at yahoo.com Bruce Ackerman bruce.ackerman at yale.edu Ian Ayres ian.ayres at yale.edu Corey Brettschneider corey_brettschneider at brown.edu Mary Dudziak mary.l.dudziak at emory.edu Joey Fishkin joey.fishkin at gmail.com Heather Gerken heather.gerken at yale.edu Abbe Gluck abbe.gluck at yale.edu Mark Graber mgraber at law.umaryland.edu Stephen Griffin sgriffin at tulane.edu Jonathan Hafetz jonathan.hafetz at shu.edu Jeremy Kessler jkessler at law.columbia.edu Andrew Koppelman akoppelman at law.northwestern.edu Marty Lederman msl46 at law.georgetown.edu Sanford Levinson slevinson at law.utexas.edu David Luban david.luban at gmail.com Gerard Magliocca gmaglioc at iupui.edu Jason Mazzone mazzonej at illinois.edu Linda McClain lmcclain at bu.edu John Mikhail mikhail at law.georgetown.edu Frank Pasquale pasquale.frank at gmail.com Nate Persily npersily at gmail.com Michael Stokes Paulsen michaelstokespaulsen at gmail.com Deborah Pearlstein dpearlst at yu.edu Rick Pildes rick.pildes at nyu.edu David Pozen dpozen at law.columbia.edu Richard Primus raprimus at umich.edu K. Sabeel Rahmansabeel.rahman at brooklaw.edu Alice Ristroph alice.ristroph at shu.edu Neil Siegel siegel at law.duke.edu David Super david.super at law.georgetown.edu Brian Tamanaha btamanaha at wulaw.wustl.edu Nelson Tebbe nelson.tebbe at brooklaw.edu Mark Tushnet mtushnet at law.harvard.edu Adam Winkler winkler at ucla.edu Compendium of posts on Hobby Lobby and related cases The Anti-Torture Memos: Balkinization Posts on Torture, Interrogation, Detention, War Powers, and OLC The Anti-Torture Memos (arranged by topic) Recent Posts Why Jacob Howard Matters: A Message to Progressive Constitutional Scholars
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Friday, March 21, 2008
Why Jacob Howard Matters: A Message to Progressive Constitutional Scholars
JB
In response to my post on the purposes behind the Fourteenth Amendment and the light they shed on the right to keep and bear arms, Deborah Pearlstein says she "need[s] some help understanding the evidentiary weight I should accord Senator Howard's remarks about the Fourteenth Amendment to our understanding of the meaning of Second." I'm happy to comply. Although what I have to say is formally in response to Deborah's questions, in fact Deborah is really giving me an excuse to say a little bit about the constitutional history of Reconstruction, America's second founding. I offer these remarks to all of my fellow progressive constitutional scholars.
Comments:
I don't know if Paul Brest is still around. Last I had heard, he was chairing an extensive study on the impact, if any, of Sarbanes Oxley on non-profits. But if he is, I wish he might respond to apply his 1980 article on "original intent" to Jack's commentary. Is what Jack is doing what Brest had so effectively critiqed in his article as to "original intent" that caused originalists to shift gears to "original meaning," "original meaning," "original understanding," "original expectations" and any other "original du jour," with the result that some claim the Constitution has been lost? Granted, there is a lot of history that Jack recites. But does it provide the correct answer in the interpretation of the 14th Amendment? I asked on an earlier post by Jack whether his shift from a living constitutionalist to a variation of an originalist has further shifted. Is there an in between category of "progressive constitutional scholar"? I share Jack's sentiments, by the way, as in my view originalism does not provide an answer.
So Paul Brest, if you're out there, chime in.
Excellent post. As I see it, Howard is relevant because he helps us understand what "of" means in "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States." And Slaughterhouse was way wrong about that.
(I still like to refer to Slaughterhouse, though, not Slaughter-House. If it were the name of the parties, that would be one thing, but if we're referring to the case with a description, isn't it OK to use modern rules for the spelling of compound nouns?)
Asking how much weight we should give to statements by Jacob Howard or John Bingham is like asking how much weight we should give to statements by James Wilson or James Madison or Gouverneur Morris or Alexander Hamilton.
Well, OK, I'll take this one step further: Why should we give much weight to statements by James Wilson or James Madison or Gouverneur Morris or Alexander Hamilton? I thought that was bad old original intent originalism, which is now (allegedly) moribund. If what we care about is the original public meaning of constitutional text, then aren't the potentially idiosyncratic views of various legislators and convention attendees only at best a starting point? We'd need evidence that a large number of their contemporaries would have all read the clause the same way. Pointing to a single speech doesn't seem likely to do that, even if it's a very clear and profound explanation of the text. Indeed, the more profound and subtle it is, perhaps the *less* weight it should be accorded as original *public* meaning.
"If what we care about is the original public meaning of constitutional text, then aren't the potentially idiosyncratic views of various legislators and convention attendees only at best a starting point?"
That's right. Howard's views are only a defeasible indication of the textually-expressed sense. "We'd need evidence that a large number of their contemporaries would have all read the clause the same way." This doesn't seem right to me. If a reading isn't rebutted and is sensible in light of the text, why think that anyone else disagreed? In the absence of evidence, we should assume non-idiosyncracy, I think. Certainly for Howard, I don't know of any good evidence he was some sort of weirdo. Bingham, maybe a bit, but I don't think Howard.
It is a shame that we spend so much more time (and even there, focusing on a few people) on the original framers while largely ignoring the second set. That alone justifies some focus.
Second, it is already done with the first set. Deciding how much we should worry about their views and to what degree of specificity is one thing. But, few really say "they don't matter." Finally, those who control the federal courts -- see the gun ruling below -- focus on history all the time. To be able to engage them (other than "that just doesn't matter"), we need to learn about it too.
Howard might not be a "weirdo," but he might have specialized knowledge not available to your average contemporary interpreter. For Howard, "privileges and immunities" means Corfield v. Coryell plus the first 8 amendments. How many of Howard's contemporaries even knew what Corfield said -- not his legislative contemporaries, but ordinary people? If the answer is "not many," then it seems Howard's somewhat specialized reading of "privileges and immunities" is not useful in determining the "original public meaning" of the phrase.
Re: Joe, that sounds like a "command theory" of constitutional interpretation -- which isn't necessarily bad, particularly if you're a practitioner, but I don't think it's Jack Balkin's theory.
"Howard ... might have specialized knowledge not available to your average contemporary interpreter."
I think the relevant inquiry is what sense the text would convey to a hypothetical informed member of the public. To stress that we're talking about public meaning just means we're talking about the generally-accessible meaning of the text, and not the private understanding of particular people. The original public meaning (I'd prefer, the original textually-expressed sense) doesn't mean the meaning actually entertained by a randomly-selected member of the population in 1866. If a term is obviously a legal term, then what's relevant is the meaning attached to the term by people who know legal terminology. (That's why, for instance, I survey legal treatises to see how they use "protection of the laws.") And legally-informed people in 1866 would know about Corfield. Non-legally-informed people would, I imagine, defer to legally-informed people, in the absence of some reason to think that "privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" means something special to, say, butchers or bakers or candlestick-makers. "For Howard, 'privileges and immunities' means Corfield v. Coryell plus the first 8 amendments." I don't think "Bill of Rights plus Corfield" is quite Howard's definition of "privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States." I think the definition is something like "the rights generally possessed by all citizens of the United States," and the Bill of Rights and Corfield stuff fills in what that amounted to.
"I think the relevant inquiry is what sense the text would convey to a hypothetical informed member of the public."
I think once you concede this the slope toward original intent originalism starts to get slippery. The question is how slippery -- i.e., how narrow is the class of relevant interpreters? The danger is that the class of "informed" observers might be so narrow that it really just boils down to those few scraps of written evidence that we actually have -- treatises, speeches by drafters introducing bills in Congress, etc. -- the same old stuff that original intent originalists used to use. "[L]egally-informed people in 1866 would know about Corfield." Even if "original public meaning" is interpreted to mean "original lawyers' meaning," I'm not sure that gets all the way to where you and Balkin are trying to go. What percentage of 1866 lawyers would read "privileges and immunities" to include the rights listed in Corfield or the first 8 amendments? There are lots of lawyers today who know practically zilch about constitutional law -- probably the vast majority. Can we be certain that lawyers in 1866 were, as a group, better informed? If not, then it would seem that you would need to narrow the class even further -- perhaps to "legally informed people" of the right sort -- constitutional law experts such as, perhaps, Howard himself. But if the class gets too small, it becomes unclear what work "original public meaning" is doing that wasn't already done by "original intent."
"The danger is that the class of 'informed' observers might be so narrow that it really just boils down to those few scraps of written evidence that we actually have..."
We have a whole lot more than a few scraps, especially when we consider, as I think we should, the subsequent interpretations of the Reconstruction Congresses. There are a huge number of treatises that use the phrase "protection of the laws" to refer to law-enforcement and remedial services, for instance, and they aren't private communications among those who enacted the 14A. They are public documents, published to the world, not difficult to understand, that supply an enormous amount of evidence of the sense expressed by the consitutional language at the time it was composed. "There are lots of lawyers today who know practically zilch about constitutional law -- probably the vast majority." Really? It was a required course even for us at Yale! It's still on the bar exam and everything. You didn't have to be any kind of constitutional-law expert in 1866 to know about Corfield--all you had to do was know about Article IV and then ask someone what the leading precedent was defining what "privileges and immunities" meant there. And as Balkin points out, Howard's speech was printed in the New York Times. The paper published an editorial saying they liked his discussion of privileges or immunities. In lieu of evidence of any contrary understanding, I'd say it's extremely likely that a great many ordinary people, with no special training at all, agreed with Howard. But the numbers of people don't matter. What matters is what sense is expressed by the text. Howard gives one perfectly sensible explanation from someone well-situated to know the sense expressed by the constitutional language, and until someone points to other evidence pointing to a different explanation, I'll go with Howard.
I missed the reply to my comments the first time, so this is late, but fwiw ...
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The link describes the 'divine command' theory thusly: "Divine command theory is the metaethical theory that an act is obligatory if and only if, and because, it is commanded by God." I'm unsure how my comments suggest I support this. I said three things. One, it would be helpful for us to have a more complete understanding of the history of the Constitution. More understanding not just of some behind the original document. Two, people already in some fashion rely on original understanding (or whatever you want to call it). I actually was agnostic on how much we should. I did imply it was inconsistent in some fashion to rely only on the OU of say Madison over Howard. If anything, the second group was more democratic and otherwise worthy of respect in some ways. My agnostic sentiment underlines that I did not mean to supply any "if and only if" sentiments as to what the 'gods' accept. My third point was pragmatic. Those who control the courts use history; it is fruitful to be able -- as their colleagues often do -- to answer them. I think Balkin is at least somewhat pragmatic in that fashion too. Again, where is this normative judgment that think we should only be guided by what the "gods" think?
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