Balkinization   |
Balkinization
Balkinization Symposiums: A Continuing List                                                                E-mail: Jack Balkin: jackbalkin at yahoo.com Bruce Ackerman bruce.ackerman at yale.edu Ian Ayres ian.ayres at yale.edu Corey Brettschneider corey_brettschneider at brown.edu Mary Dudziak mary.l.dudziak at emory.edu Joey Fishkin joey.fishkin at gmail.com Heather Gerken heather.gerken at yale.edu Abbe Gluck abbe.gluck at yale.edu Mark Graber mgraber at law.umaryland.edu Stephen Griffin sgriffin at tulane.edu Jonathan Hafetz jonathan.hafetz at shu.edu Jeremy Kessler jkessler at law.columbia.edu Andrew Koppelman akoppelman at law.northwestern.edu Marty Lederman msl46 at law.georgetown.edu Sanford Levinson slevinson at law.utexas.edu David Luban david.luban at gmail.com Gerard Magliocca gmaglioc at iupui.edu Jason Mazzone mazzonej at illinois.edu Linda McClain lmcclain at bu.edu John Mikhail mikhail at law.georgetown.edu Frank Pasquale pasquale.frank at gmail.com Nate Persily npersily at gmail.com Michael Stokes Paulsen michaelstokespaulsen at gmail.com Deborah Pearlstein dpearlst at yu.edu Rick Pildes rick.pildes at nyu.edu David Pozen dpozen at law.columbia.edu Richard Primus raprimus at umich.edu K. Sabeel Rahmansabeel.rahman at brooklaw.edu Alice Ristroph alice.ristroph at shu.edu Neil Siegel siegel at law.duke.edu David Super david.super at law.georgetown.edu Brian Tamanaha btamanaha at wulaw.wustl.edu Nelson Tebbe nelson.tebbe at brooklaw.edu Mark Tushnet mtushnet at law.harvard.edu Adam Winkler winkler at ucla.edu Compendium of posts on Hobby Lobby and related cases The Anti-Torture Memos: Balkinization Posts on Torture, Interrogation, Detention, War Powers, and OLC The Anti-Torture Memos (arranged by topic) Recent Posts OK, Then, Senator Rockefeller -- At a Minimum, You Should Make Sure the Suits Against the Government Can Go Forward
|
Wednesday, October 31, 2007
OK, Then, Senator Rockefeller -- At a Minimum, You Should Make Sure the Suits Against the Government Can Go Forward
Marty Lederman
There is much that I question, or disagree with, in Senator Rockefeller's explanation today of why his bill would provide telecom immunity from liability for unlawful conduct.
Comments:
In any event, Judge Rockefeller is absolutely correct about one important thing: the telecoms are not the real problem. The legality of the conduct of the government officials is what is truly important here. That's why this is the most important part of Senator Rockefeller's Op-Ed:
[L]awsuits against the government can go forward. There is little doubt that the government was operating in, at best, a legal gray area. If administration officials abused their power or improperly violated the privacy of innocent people, they must be held accountable. If? Senator Rockefeller has been read in on the TSP since the beginning. After pulling a "shocked, shocked" act when the NYT disclosed the TSP to al Qaeda, Rockefeller made a great show of submitting hundreds of questions to the NSA about the TSP and personally observing the program for himself. Consequently, exactly what is it about the legality of TSP that Rockefeller does not personally know? If there is something "illegal" about the TSP, why doesn't he say something? What Rockefeller is really saying here is that the United States cannot afford to cripple the source of its critical signals intelligence by subjecting the telecoms to frivolous lawsuits, but subjecting an Administration of the opposite party to frivolous lawsuits is simply good politics. What a piece of work this man is.
What is the cause of action against the government? AFAIK, the "lawsuits against the government [that] can go forward" amount to demands for admission and injunction against future snooping against the individual party who brought the suit.
. If there is to be immunity, why not eliminate altogether the statutory causes of action against the telecoms -- looking ahead for the next need to snoop for national security, of course. Just in case there is domestic to domestic exchange of terrorist-related or other subversive communication.
if Congress does grant the telecoms immunity, it must also, at the very least, take steps to ensure that the lawsuits against the government can proceed.
It's not clear to me that Congress can do so. The government continues to assert the state secrets doctrine, which appears to be a corollary to executive privilege. I'm afraid that any immunity bill containing such a provision would offer the appearance of a remedy only, not the substance. The ONLY way to attack this issue is through the telecoms.
It's really shameful that the bloody flag of 9/11 is being waved to justify this incredibly broad grant of immunity. As EFF said, if the only thing at issue here was patriotic cooperation by the telecoms in the immediate wake of 9/11, they wouldn't have even filed suit.
What possible justification can there be for a blanket grant of immunity based upon what the telecoms are doing this week or last week or the week before? If we truly need to revise our privacy laws, then go through the democratic process and change them. Do we really want to set the precedent that it's ok for major corporations to break the law, provided they're willing to spend the cash to lobby Congress for amnesty after the fact?
I think mark field is on the right track here -can Congress pass a statute that authorizes suits against the government w/r/t NSA spying? Specifically, can Congress pass anything that gets over the Sixth Circuit's finding that the plaintiffs did not have standing to sue? http://www.techlawjournal.com/topstories/2007/20070706.asp
Standing is, in part, a constitutional requirement, right? I don't recall if the Sixth Circuit ruled on standing as a constitutional doctrine or as a prudential one, but this could be a problem as well. Thanks, Professor, as always for your insight.
From 2002 to 2006 Sen Rockerfeller received $4050 from the telcoms. From March to June 2007 he received $42,850.
Need we say more. hal lewis
From 2002 to 2006 Sen Rockerfeller received $4050 from the telcoms. From March to June 2007 he received $42,850.
Need we say more. I'm very opposed to Rockefeller's position here, but there's an obvious reason for this: the Democrats became the majority party and Rockefeller became the chair of the committee. I don't think we need to posit monetary corruption, just (?) the more insidious attitude by which Washington insiders protect those whom they perceive as "their own".
It's not clear to me that Congress can do so. The government continues to assert the state secrets doctrine, which appears to be a corollary to executive privilege. I'm afraid that any immunity bill containing such a provision would offer the appearance of a remedy only, not the substance.
Mark, respectfully, the state secrets privilege is not a claim of executive privilege. It is a judicially created privilege which dates back to Totten v. US and which is recognized by the federal cours pursuant to FRE 501. Congress clearly has the power to change it, limit its scope, or eliminate it altogether. I don't see any reason why the courts wouldn't follow Congress' directive if Congress limited or eliminated the privilege.
Rockefeller is a textbook fascist - as in binding the corporations and the state into one.
Context so that doesn't sound wild-eyed: I'm on the complaint list here in Maine in case of PUC vs VZ. Haven't had a cell phone since I signed on. I have owned and operated a small ISP - first in Maine - for nearly 15 years. The telecoms do have an obligation as a service provider to require proper warrants and proceedures. That's a no brainer - DOH! And that is what Verizon did not do. Frankly, I think the State of Maine should revoke Verizon's charter. The Maine statue violated is a "paramount interest of the State". [So Rockefeller isn't the only fascist - the Utilities and Commerce Committee is too.] My lawsuit (via PUC and Complaint) is not against the government; it is against Verizon: keep it straight. [What I saw in Bangor during the hearing - where the State of Maine took a dive - yeah, RICO would apply, but that would assume a certain legitimacy of government that was no longer present at several levels.]
Dilan, I'd like to think you're right, but I'm not at all sure you are. Totten, after all, involved an alleged contract with the President to spy on the enemy. The Court refused to enforce the contract because of the military nature of the agreement. Similarly, in Reynolds the claim was a secret mission by the Air Force (this claim was later revealed to be false).
All the cases I know of have arisen out of intelligence or military activity. Can Congress order disclosure of military secrets? I don't know, but I've always associated this privilege with the Executive.
[Rockefeller]: [L]awsuits against the government can go forward. There is little doubt that the government was operating in, at best, a legal gray area. If administration officials abused their power or improperly violated the privacy of innocent people, they must be held accountable.
["Bart"]: If? Senator Rockefeller has been read in on the TSP since the beginning. So says someone who wants that to be true. But Rockefeller has denied that. Regardless, whether or not Rcokefeller was "read in" and regardless of what he was "read in" on, the legality of the actions stand (or fall) on their own legal merits. ["Bart"]: Consequently, exactly what is it about the legality of TSP that Rockefeller does not personally know? Let's find out! To be blunt about it, Rockefeller is a member of Congress (and one more friendly to the maladministration than he ought to be). He is not the judiciary, and in no position to decide on the legality of the maladministration's actions under the law. Cheers, Cheers,
Arne Langsetmo said...
["Bart"]: Consequently, exactly what is it about the legality of TSP that Rockefeller does not personally know? To be blunt about it, Rockefeller is a member of Congress (and one more friendly to the maladministration than he ought to be). He is not the judiciary, and in no position to decide on the legality of the maladministration's actions under the law. :::chuckle::: Legislators ought to understand their own laws. If not, they can and do hire attorneys to assist them in this task. The Constitution assumes this when it granted the House the power to impeach and the Senate the power to try and remove a President for high crimes and misdemeanors. The judiciary is not the only branch which can interpret law. Both Congress and the President do so continuously to do their jobs. The judiciary simply gets the last word if a case or controversy is properly brought before them.
"Bart" DePalma:
["Bart"]: Consequently, exactly what is it about the legality of TSP that Rockefeller does not personally know? To be blunt about it, Rockefeller is a member of Congress (and one more friendly to the maladministration than he ought to be). He is not the judiciary, and in no position to decide on the legality of the maladministration's actions under the law. :::chuckle::: Legislators ought to understand their own laws. If not, they can and do hire attorneys to assist them in this task. Actually, the laws were not Rockefeller's. He wasn't around in the Senate in 1978. But the laws are a matter of public record. As you well know, "Bart" it is the duty to the courts to apply the laws to the facts. And regardless of whose duty that is, that can hardly be done when the facts aren't known. Right now, with the most secretive maladministration in history, the only ones that actually know the facts are the maladministration, no matter how much the might bleat that "Congress has been fully read in" (and thus someone else whose opinion doesn't make a legal damn supposedly goes along with the maladministration's actions). This ought to be obvious. Why you pretend that this is a defence is beyond me. "But ... but ... he saaaaaiiiidddd I could do it!"..... The maladministration sounds more and more like a six-year-old child every day. Which might be what impresses you. Cheers,
So, please, oh please, we beg, we pray, go throw your TV set away, and in its place you can install, a lovely bookcase on the wall.
Post a Comment
Agen Judi Online Terpercaya
|
Books by Balkinization Bloggers Linda C. McClain and Aziza Ahmed, The Routledge Companion to Gender and COVID-19 (Routledge, 2024) David Pozen, The Constitution of the War on Drugs (Oxford University Press, 2024) Jack M. Balkin, Memory and Authority: The Uses of History in Constitutional Interpretation (Yale University Press, 2024) Mark A. Graber, Punish Treason, Reward Loyalty: The Forgotten Goals of Constitutional Reform after the Civil War (University of Kansas Press, 2023) Jack M. Balkin, What Roe v. Wade Should Have Said: The Nation's Top Legal Experts Rewrite America's Most Controversial Decision - Revised Edition (NYU Press, 2023) Andrew Koppelman, Burning Down the House: How Libertarian Philosophy Was Corrupted by Delusion and Greed (St. Martin’s Press, 2022) Gerard N. Magliocca, Washington's Heir: The Life of Justice Bushrod Washington (Oxford University Press, 2022) Joseph Fishkin and William E. Forbath, The Anti-Oligarchy Constitution: Reconstructing the Economic Foundations of American Democracy (Harvard University Press, 2022) Mark Tushnet and Bojan Bugaric, Power to the People: Constitutionalism in the Age of Populism (Oxford University Press 2021). Mark Philip Bradley and Mary L. Dudziak, eds., Making the Forever War: Marilyn B. Young on the Culture and Politics of American Militarism Culture and Politics in the Cold War and Beyond (University of Massachusetts Press, 2021). Jack M. Balkin, What Obergefell v. Hodges Should Have Said: The Nation's Top Legal Experts Rewrite America's Same-Sex Marriage Decision (Yale University Press, 2020) Frank Pasquale, New Laws of Robotics: Defending Human Expertise in the Age of AI (Belknap Press, 2020) Jack M. Balkin, The Cycles of Constitutional Time (Oxford University Press, 2020) Mark Tushnet, Taking Back the Constitution: Activist Judges and the Next Age of American Law (Yale University Press 2020). Andrew Koppelman, Gay Rights vs. Religious Liberty?: The Unnecessary Conflict (Oxford University Press, 2020) Ezekiel J Emanuel and Abbe R. Gluck, The Trillion Dollar Revolution: How the Affordable Care Act Transformed Politics, Law, and Health Care in America (PublicAffairs, 2020) Linda C. McClain, Who's the Bigot?: Learning from Conflicts over Marriage and Civil Rights Law (Oxford University Press, 2020) Sanford Levinson and Jack M. Balkin, Democracy and Dysfunction (University of Chicago Press, 2019) Sanford Levinson, Written in Stone: Public Monuments in Changing Societies (Duke University Press 2018) Mark A. Graber, Sanford Levinson, and Mark Tushnet, eds., Constitutional Democracy in Crisis? (Oxford University Press 2018) Gerard Magliocca, The Heart of the Constitution: How the Bill of Rights became the Bill of Rights (Oxford University Press, 2018) Cynthia Levinson and Sanford Levinson, Fault Lines in the Constitution: The Framers, Their Fights, and the Flaws that Affect Us Today (Peachtree Publishers, 2017) Brian Z. Tamanaha, A Realistic Theory of Law (Cambridge University Press 2017) Sanford Levinson, Nullification and Secession in Modern Constitutional Thought (University Press of Kansas 2016) Sanford Levinson, An Argument Open to All: Reading The Federalist in the 21st Century (Yale University Press 2015) Stephen M. Griffin, Broken Trust: Dysfunctional Government and Constitutional Reform (University Press of Kansas, 2015) Frank Pasquale, The Black Box Society: The Secret Algorithms That Control Money and Information (Harvard University Press, 2015) Bruce Ackerman, We the People, Volume 3: The Civil Rights Revolution (Harvard University Press, 2014) Balkinization Symposium on We the People, Volume 3: The Civil Rights Revolution Joseph Fishkin, Bottlenecks: A New Theory of Equal Opportunity (Oxford University Press, 2014) Mark A. Graber, A New Introduction to American Constitutionalism (Oxford University Press, 2013) John Mikhail, Elements of Moral Cognition: Rawls' Linguistic Analogy and the Cognitive Science of Moral and Legal Judgment (Cambridge University Press, 2013) Gerard N. Magliocca, American Founding Son: John Bingham and the Invention of the Fourteenth Amendment (New York University Press, 2013) Stephen M. Griffin, Long Wars and the Constitution (Harvard University Press, 2013) Andrew Koppelman, The Tough Luck Constitution and the Assault on Health Care Reform (Oxford University Press, 2013) James E. Fleming and Linda C. McClain, Ordered Liberty: Rights, Responsibilities, and Virtues (Harvard University Press, 2013) Balkinization Symposium on Ordered Liberty: Rights, Responsibilities, and Virtues Andrew Koppelman, Defending American Religious Neutrality (Harvard University Press, 2013) Brian Z. Tamanaha, Failing Law Schools (University of Chicago Press, 2012) Sanford Levinson, Framed: America's 51 Constitutions and the Crisis of Governance (Oxford University Press, 2012) Linda C. McClain and Joanna L. Grossman, Gender Equality: Dimensions of Women's Equal Citizenship (Cambridge University Press, 2012) Mary Dudziak, War Time: An Idea, Its History, Its Consequences (Oxford University Press, 2012) Jack M. Balkin, Living Originalism (Harvard University Press, 2011) Jason Mazzone, Copyfraud and Other Abuses of Intellectual Property Law (Stanford University Press, 2011) Richard W. Garnett and Andrew Koppelman, First Amendment Stories, (Foundation Press 2011) Jack M. Balkin, Constitutional Redemption: Political Faith in an Unjust World (Harvard University Press, 2011) Gerard Magliocca, The Tragedy of William Jennings Bryan: Constitutional Law and the Politics of Backlash (Yale University Press, 2011) Bernard Harcourt, The Illusion of Free Markets: Punishment and the Myth of Natural Order (Harvard University Press, 2010) Bruce Ackerman, The Decline and Fall of the American Republic (Harvard University Press, 2010) Balkinization Symposium on The Decline and Fall of the American Republic Ian Ayres. Carrots and Sticks: Unlock the Power of Incentives to Get Things Done (Bantam Books, 2010) Mark Tushnet, Why the Constitution Matters (Yale University Press 2010) Ian Ayres and Barry Nalebuff: Lifecycle Investing: A New, Safe, and Audacious Way to Improve the Performance of Your Retirement Portfolio (Basic Books, 2010) Jack M. Balkin, The Laws of Change: I Ching and the Philosophy of Life (2d Edition, Sybil Creek Press 2009) Brian Z. Tamanaha, Beyond the Formalist-Realist Divide: The Role of Politics in Judging (Princeton University Press 2009) Andrew Koppelman and Tobias Barrington Wolff, A Right to Discriminate?: How the Case of Boy Scouts of America v. James Dale Warped the Law of Free Association (Yale University Press 2009) Jack M. Balkin and Reva B. Siegel, The Constitution in 2020 (Oxford University Press 2009) Heather K. Gerken, The Democracy Index: Why Our Election System Is Failing and How to Fix It (Princeton University Press 2009) Mary Dudziak, Exporting American Dreams: Thurgood Marshall's African Journey (Oxford University Press 2008) David Luban, Legal Ethics and Human Dignity (Cambridge Univ. Press 2007) Ian Ayres, Super Crunchers: Why Thinking-By-Numbers is the New Way to be Smart (Bantam 2007) Jack M. Balkin, James Grimmelmann, Eddan Katz, Nimrod Kozlovski, Shlomit Wagman and Tal Zarsky, eds., Cybercrime: Digital Cops in a Networked Environment (N.Y.U. Press 2007) Jack M. Balkin and Beth Simone Noveck, The State of Play: Law, Games, and Virtual Worlds (N.Y.U. Press 2006) Andrew Koppelman, Same Sex, Different States: When Same-Sex Marriages Cross State Lines (Yale University Press 2006) Brian Tamanaha, Law as a Means to an End (Cambridge University Press 2006) Sanford Levinson, Our Undemocratic Constitution (Oxford University Press 2006) Mark Graber, Dred Scott and the Problem of Constitutional Evil (Cambridge University Press 2006) Jack M. Balkin, ed., What Roe v. Wade Should Have Said (N.Y.U. Press 2005) Sanford Levinson, ed., Torture: A Collection (Oxford University Press 2004) Balkin.com homepage Bibliography Conlaw.net Cultural Software Writings Opeds The Information Society Project BrownvBoard.com Useful Links Syllabi and Exams |