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Balkinization Symposiums: A Continuing List                                                                E-mail: Jack Balkin: jackbalkin at yahoo.com Bruce Ackerman bruce.ackerman at yale.edu Ian Ayres ian.ayres at yale.edu Corey Brettschneider corey_brettschneider at brown.edu Mary Dudziak mary.l.dudziak at emory.edu Joey Fishkin joey.fishkin at gmail.com Heather Gerken heather.gerken at yale.edu Abbe Gluck abbe.gluck at yale.edu Mark Graber mgraber at law.umaryland.edu Stephen Griffin sgriffin at tulane.edu Jonathan Hafetz jonathan.hafetz at shu.edu Jeremy Kessler jkessler at law.columbia.edu Andrew Koppelman akoppelman at law.northwestern.edu Marty Lederman msl46 at law.georgetown.edu Sanford Levinson slevinson at law.utexas.edu David Luban david.luban at gmail.com Gerard Magliocca gmaglioc at iupui.edu Jason Mazzone mazzonej at illinois.edu Linda McClain lmcclain at bu.edu John Mikhail mikhail at law.georgetown.edu Frank Pasquale pasquale.frank at gmail.com Nate Persily npersily at gmail.com Michael Stokes Paulsen michaelstokespaulsen at gmail.com Deborah Pearlstein dpearlst at yu.edu Rick Pildes rick.pildes at nyu.edu David Pozen dpozen at law.columbia.edu Richard Primus raprimus at umich.edu K. Sabeel Rahmansabeel.rahman at brooklaw.edu Alice Ristroph alice.ristroph at shu.edu Neil Siegel siegel at law.duke.edu David Super david.super at law.georgetown.edu Brian Tamanaha btamanaha at wulaw.wustl.edu Nelson Tebbe nelson.tebbe at brooklaw.edu Mark Tushnet mtushnet at law.harvard.edu Adam Winkler winkler at ucla.edu Compendium of posts on Hobby Lobby and related cases The Anti-Torture Memos: Balkinization Posts on Torture, Interrogation, Detention, War Powers, and OLC The Anti-Torture Memos (arranged by topic) Recent Posts Clarence Thomas's Originalism
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Wednesday, July 11, 2007
Clarence Thomas's Originalism
JB
Justice Clarence Thomas is well known for his claim that we should be faithful to the Constitution's original meaning. This often leads him to results contrary with the rest of his fellow Justices, including Justice Scalia, who also claims to be an originalist, but of the "faint-hearted" variety.
Comments:
Professor Balkin: But there is more than one version of originalism...
Respectfully, that's totally missing the larger context. When a Thomas or a Scalia invokes "originalism" or "majoritarianism" or whatever pet terms they're tossing about du jour, it isn't from any desire to accurately portray their positions, but rather to foreclose analysis in the minds of as many as can be swayed. The single greatest error and weakness of progressives is this continued insistence on treating rhetoric as reasoning in good faith. Treating ill-will enemies as good-faith players is a dangerous mistake.
Jack: You might have added to your list Wisconsin Right to Life: What are the odds that *any* of the variants of originalism would have given corporations any First Amendment rights, let alone the right to use treasury funds rather than designated, segegrated funds for certain expressive activities?
Until the 1830s, public mass education was not even an issue -- of course, Thomas and our follow originalists are often forced to "hypothetically" assume later-developed constructs, such as compulsory schooling, were in place at the time and determine how the rules would apply -- from Wikipedia:
Education reformers such as Horace Mann, helped jump start the common school movement. In 1837, Mann became the first Secretary of the Board of Education for Massachusetts. Mann was at the forefront in promoting the institution of common schools. His influence on education in Massachusetts soon spread to the U.S. as a whole. Not until 1870, however, were all states provided free elementary schooling.
Professor Balkin:
[T]here is more than one version of originalism. Original meaning originalism asks about the meaning of the words in constitutional text to the average person at the time of adoption. Original expected application asks how people at the time of adoption would have understood the text would be applied.... Thomas portrays himself as an original meaning originalist. However, I have argued that many original meaning originalists actually conflate original meaning with original expected application. That is, they say they are focused on original meaning, but in fact they focus on original expected applications to decide what the principles underlying the text are and how they should be applied. What is the basis for the distinction between your categories of original meaning and original expected application? Both categories appear to be text based with the People at the time of the ratification defining the meaning of the text. Are you arguing that the People at the time of the ratification had different definitions for the text standing alone as opposed to when it was applied to a set of facts? Your point appears to me to be a distinction without a real difference. Thank you in advance for any guidance you could provide here.
Dear Bart:
I've written a couple of articles on this distinction, which I've linked to above. You can also find them here and here. I've argued that although original expected application is not a plausible theory of constitutional interpretation, original meaning originalism is, and, in fact, it is the best approach.
Not until 1870, however, were all states provided free elementary schooling.
It's interesting to think that evidence from the 1870s qualifies as an indicator of original application 100 years previously. Indeed, Thomas cited one case from 1915 in support of his view (a case which, btw, didn't even raise a free speech issue). This form of "originalism" sure looks a lot like living constitutionalism.
Not at all, Mr. Field -- as I noted, Thomas and follow originalists "hypothetically" assumed that such a later-developed construct as compulsory schooling were in place and then simply determine how the rules would have applied back then -- what am I not explaining clearly?
Thomas and follow originalists "hypothetically" assumed that such a later-developed construct as compulsory schooling were in place and then simply determine how the rules would have applied back then -- what am I not explaining clearly?
I think you explained exactly what Thomas did. It just makes no sense whatsoever. "Nunc pro tunc" is not a form of originalism, as far as I know.
On originalism, and having done battle with Scalia on this when he visited my law school, it always baffles me when the Framers and those who voted for the Constitution are termed "the people". Scalia remarked to me that "the People adopted it". I was baffled by his comment as he is an educated person who is clearly aware of the circumstances of the United States at that time. I can live with the Constitution being legitimized by the limited process of approval in place at that time - but going beyond that to then say that the views on the text of that narrow group at the time are all that is to be looked at just baffles me. I recognize we can read them for meaning and they may have special weight in letting us know what they were struggling about. But, those alive even today who read the struggles and think in fresh ways about those issues help inform my understanding. The death of the last Framer appears to be a pretty arbitrary date at which we should stop looking at ideas on the text.
I mean it is like I am not permitted to look at Madison and say - gee this guy who didn't free his slaves when he died is not to me the be all and end all. He is of interest as far as he goes but I think that Frederick Douglass might have said something 80 years later that resonates more powerfully. On the colorblind Constitution, it seems to me that this is a peculiarly American discussion of our relationship with the peculiar institution. As Randy Barnett has highlighted, the interstate commerce clause and other things were put in place precisely to keep the Federal Government out of the slave trade. Then there are those who say that slaves were not only blacks so the Constitution is colorblind and it just seems to me that it is an effort to mask what was patently clear - that enslavement of blacks was a motor of the United States and a source of great wealth and those with power were willing to preserve it in the Constitution. One of those persons was Barbary my ancestor born in 1787 and sold into slavery in 1800. Draining the Constitution of that significant part of the American experience seems very suspect to me. Is it so hard to recognize that the document enshrined an enormous evil and we fought a civil war to undo that? As one of my students said, to speak of colorblind constitution is to make me invisible. I understand that Thomas will be putting out a book now on what he thinks on all things affirmative action and all that. I will take a look at it. It just seems that originalism alone just like any other system alone is a damaged form of analysis. Each approach is a lens. Now some might say that a "looking at everything" approach is a damaged approach also and that all approaches are equally and on and on. I agree we can end up in a cycle - but it seems bizarre that we would limit ourselves in such a manner not looking forward or backward from that time. The Constitution is not some document that was handed to us by some higher being. It is the work of a few persons. We read it and we interpret it to best of our ability. No need for blinkers - especially as the Framers excluded so many from being "People" who might have a word to say. Best, Ben
Benjamin Davis: I was baffled by [Supreme Court Justice Scalia's] comment as he is an educated person who is clearly aware of the circumstances of the United States at that time.
Ben, this really ties in with my original comment, that the greatest error progressives are making, day in and day out, is to treat a Scalia or a Thomas or a Hannity or an O'Reilly as a good-faith interlocutor. I invite you to take a look at this Scalia inspired rant I wrote in 2005 after the McCreary decision came down. While it's a little foamy for this venue, I think you will appreciate the points made, and how they serve to highlight the larger issue of accurately assessing the difference between a fellow citizen with whom we legitimately disagree versus a partisan hack looking only to gore your ox. It's vital we adopt different methods for the different categories. (Not that I mean to suggest you could do much in a forum with a Supreme Court Justice, demands of respect for office and decorum being what they are. Wish I'd been there...) Peace. (Would follow up with a private inquiry about where you teach &c but your blogger profile has no contact info. If you're willing you can reach me at beau AT oblios-cap DOT com)
I still do not understand how "originalism" avoids the intentional fallacy. Moreover, since hermeneutics is not taught in law schools, whence cometh these "literary theories?" Granted, our Constitution and Laws are written in a language, English to be precise, but most jurists don't have a clue about linguistic uses, sense, or reference. Since most law courses are taught outside their historical context, it would seem that all these theories are simply excuses to "mean what we say."
At some point, we have to avoid all this casuistry. We have to determine whether our linguistic use is essentialist or nominalist. We have to understand a word's etymology, it evolutionary use, its changing senses, different contexts, and evolving applications. Not the Richard Rorty relativist nonsense, much less the postmodernist bullshit (John Searle's "postmodernism gives bullshit a bad name"). None of the psycho-babble, either. Odd, that lawyers do not study any language courses nor are they required to take logic, deductive, inductive, or fallacious -- esp. since our Constitution, Laws, and their applications would seem to require such "basics." Obviously, anyone who appeals to "originalism" has not studied hermeneutics, either. It's not unlike a Doctor of Medicine who studies pharmacology, surgery, differential diagnoses, etc., but never studies human anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry. No wonder we get the decisions we get. Jurists lack logic, linguistics, commit fallacies, cannot distinguish between sense and reference, much less use, and praise Richard Rorty as one of the three greatest philosophers of all time. Breathtakingly inane. But it does explain.
The Gay Species: ...whence cometh these "literary theories?"
Y'just don't see "hermeneutics" often enough in conversation these days. ;) Thoughts: While I wouldn't expect, say, a Charles or a Bart to competently diagram a simple S-V-O like "Charles admires Bart," I think it's fair to assume the head of the Yale Information Society Project and author of works such as Cultural Software: A Theory of Ideology and The Laws of Change: I Ching and the Philosophy of Life holds himself to a higher standard. Don't know about you, but I'm here to rub ideological elbows with our hosts much more than for the guilty pleasure of spanking their more obnoxious guests. Peace. (btw: If your blog or profile list your email I've failed to find it. Would love to carry on this conversation off-blog...)
Professor Balkin,
Isn't "meaning" defined by the set of all applications consistent with that meaning? Hence, if we are to maintain the original meaning, we must also maintain the original applications, albeit, in their original context. Thus, expected applications can be informative, though not necessarily limiting, on the actual meaning encoded in law. Most of your examples related to free speech seem to have an inherently cultural component to them (e.g. profanity). Is it fair to conclude that your actual focus regarding the difference between "meaning" and "expected application" is the degree to which codified principles are originally intended or expected to be relative to the changing culture?
Prof. Balkin,
If Justice Thomas had attempted an argument about the original meaning of the first amendment, he might have had to acknowledge that the public schools of the 1800s would have abused the religious rights of himself and the four other Catholics in the Morse v. Frederick majority. But I may be doing Thomas an injustice -- perhaps he would see no constitutional harm in being forced to recite Protestant prayers. There were no public schools at the Founding, so we don't know what the Founders thought of schoolchildren's rights, but we have a fair amount of evidence regarding what many of them thought of Catholics, and how they and their fellow Protestants put those feelings into action as public policy.
Bart:
I can't speak for Professor Balkin, but I suppose the problem is this. The Fourteenth Amendment, which applied the First Amendment to the states, was adopted in the 1860's. Thus, the relevant originalism is what the original meaning was at the time of the 1860's, not the 1780's. You can't meaningfully posit how the First Amendment was supposed to apply to a state-regulated public school when the amendment wasn't intended to deal with state-operated entities at all and the federal government wasn't operating any public schools. But, Thomas wants to make his point using cases from the mid-19th Century, before the 14th Amendment was adopted. So he looks at what states were doing back then with their own constitutions and extrapolates that this was the expected application of the 14th Amendment. That may or may not be the case, but once you do that, you are shifting interpretation strategies. The MEANING of the 14th Amendment was to require state governments to respect, among other things, rights of free speech, and you would need to look at what free speech meant to the nation as a whole as of the 1860's to determine this. What free speech meant in particular states 30 years earlier isn't particularly relevant. So Thomas isn't really adopting a consistent interpretative strategy here.
Professor:
I think your distinction well taken but I am somewhat chagrined by the rather nasty and churlish postings of your blogging entourage. Given the difficult task of weighing the value of following originalism-consistent results with stare decisis, one cannot expect a justice's votes perfectly to coincide with the dictates of an originalist analysis. Further, judges are human beings and as such are susceptible to mistakes, even originalist mistakes (gasp!), but that is no reason to reject originalism altogether. And just what precisely is being offered on the other side? Justice Breyer's purposivism? Some redivivus version of Justice Douglas's penumbral emanations? Egads! If we do not wish to be ruled by some nine-headed Caesar giving its collective thumbs up or thumbs done to whatever passes before it (thank you Nino), then I cannot imagine a better technique to avoiding that lamentable result than originalism. Unless we wish to dispense with democracy.
Kevin: "Isn't 'meaning' defined by the set of all applications consistent with that meaning? Hence, if we are to maintain the original meaning, we must also maintain the original applications, albeit, in their original context."
I would define meaning as a function from possible worlds to applications. Two words can have the same application in this world, but if they have different applications in some possible world, then they have different meanings. The reason the framers can be wrong about the application of their provision, even if they know the meaning of their words, is that original applications might depend on facts about which the framers were wrong. For more, see here. I haven't looked carefully at Morse yet, but obviously original expected applications are some indication of original meaning. Absent a showing of error by the framers about the application-yielding facts, I'd assume they were right about the application too. In the bit quoted in the post, Thomas only says the history "suggests" the conclusion.
Chris,
Thanks for your comment and the link to your impressive paper on the subject. I think we basically agree. I did not mean to imply any restrictions to particular contexts or worlds in my definition. I also agree that there are many reasons why conflicts between meaning and its applications can exist, though I think such data points should be statistical outliers. I haven't studied the particulars of this case very much either, but my questions of Prof. Balkin were primarily meant to probe his general philosophy of "original expected applications" versus "original meaning". At first glance, it appears that he defines "original expected applications" rather narrowly but then equates it with traditional originalism, and then dubs living constitutionalism to be "original meaning" because it better explains how constitutional interpretation has actually operated in practice. I'm interested in your take on his philosophy, since I assume I'm missing something.
Kevin,
I need to read Balkin's reply more carefully before I comment on his theory in general, but his assessment of the current state of constitutional theory seems the weakest theoretical part of his paper, as Berman points out. So I don't think his equating original expected applications with traditional originalism is right. (I think the application to abortion has some problems too.) In general I think "text and principle" doesn't say enough about the relationship between text and principle. Which is binding when, and why? I think the textually-expressed principle--that is, the sense historically expressed by the constitutional language--is interpretively paramount. To the extent Balkin gives himself more wiggle room than that, he's liable to err. But I need to read the reply carefully before I say more.
Having read the concurrence now, I don't think Balkin's criticism is on point. Thomas seems to acknowledge that the passage of time could make a difference to the constitutional outcome. "To be sure, our educational system faces administrative and pedagogical challenges different from those faced by 19th-century schools. And the idea of treating children as though it were still the 19th century would find little support today. But I see no constitutional imperative requiring public schools to allow all student speech." I read that as a challenge to those who disagree to explain exactly what it is about the changed situation between then and now that requires a different result--as I would put it, exactly what changes in reference-yielding facts are supposedly at work.
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