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Sunday, February 18, 2007
Good terrorism?
Sandy Levinson
A story in tomorrow's NYTimes details Iranian protests about the alleged origins of some terrorist bombings in the provincial capital of Zahaden, which killed 11 people, in Sunni camps in Pakistan. Most relevant are the following paragraphs: Iran has accused the United States and Britain of provoking the Sunni insurgents. The authorities have said that the efforts are part of the plot to sow discord among Sunnis and Shiites in the country. Gen. Mohammad Ghaffari, a commander of security forces in the province, told the Fars news agency that a film that was confiscated from the suspects proved that the group was “affiliated to intelligence agencies of some of the foreign countries, such as the U.S. and Britain.” The news agency also quoted what it called informed sources as saying that the explosives used in the bombings were American.
Comments:
Professor Levinson:
I would advise that before you join the NYT in disseminating this Iranian propaganda and slander against your country you might want to check out the facts. Earlier today, littlegreenfootballs.com appears to have exposed the clumsy Photoshopped images of alleged US weapons which were published on the Iranian FARS News Agency website. LGF led the way in exposing the Hizbollah propaganda being fed to the media in Lebanon during their recent war against Israel. Professor, Iran has been an enemy of this nation since their attack on our embassy in 1979. After launching a proxy war against Israel and Lebanon, we have proof positive that Iran is now supplying advanced weaponry to terror groups in Iraq to kill our troops. This propaganda being disseminated credulously by the NYT is meant to deflect evidence of Iran's war against our soldiers in the field. Please do not give any credence to this information warfare attack against our nation.
It's possible that Mr. dePalma is correct, but is he suggesting that the NYTimes should simply fail to report at all a signifcant story about potentially rising tensions beween Iran and Pakistan, a US ally in the "Global War on Terrorism" that, in this instance, stands accused of being complicit in terrorism in Iran. I take it that there is no disputing that the attack within Iran actually occurred and killed some innocent people. The Times certainly did not state that the US was in fact complicit, only that Iran was making claims that that was so. I offered my own reasons as to why such a claim might in fact be accurate, not least because the Administration does believe, perhaps with good reason, that Iran has been sending weaponry to Iraq. If it turns out that Iran is telling the truth, I would expect Mr. dePalma to be the first to defend US complicity, since, by his own account, they have been our enemy since 1979 and should presumably be treated as such.
Sandy Levinson said...
It's possible that Mr. dePalma is correct, but is he suggesting that the NYTimes should simply fail to report at all a signifcant story about potentially rising tensions beween Iran and Pakistan, a US ally in the "Global War on Terrorism" that, in this instance, stands accused of being complicit in terrorism in Iran. I am suggesting that the NYT and the rest of our media apply actual investigative reporting techniques as well as the old two source confirmation rule before parroting enemy propaganda as "news." If the blogosphere can expose this clumsy propaganda in less than 24 hous, on would think that the "Gray Lady" has the resources to do so - unless they have an agenda. The Times certainly did not state that the US was in fact complicit, only that Iran was making claims that that was so. Defamation 101: Generally, anyone who repeats someone else's statements is just as responsible for their defamatory content as the original speaker — if they knew, or had reason to know, of the defamation. While NYT v. Sullivan will generally protect the press from legal liability for publishing or republishing most libels, the NYT certainly has no ethical excuse for publishing this enemy propaganda as straight news with the implication that the NYT had investigated and confirmed them. At minimum, the NYT could follow Iran's propaganda with the disclaimer that Iran would not produce any evidence confirming its claims. On the other hand, if the NYT was actually doing its job, they would have discovered the doctored enemy photographs and reported this news along side the enemy propaganda claims.
Bart,
If you turn around your comments, and use them on the "proof positive" that was supplied to prove Iranian support of the insurgency, it would quickly be obvious that the anonymous statements by our government have as much validity as anonymous Iranian statements about our support of their radical groups. Please provide truly logical support why, over a week ago, anonymous officials in our government provided a powerpoint purporting to show physical evidence in Baghdad of Iranian manufacture of munitions that could have been used against our troops instead of providing the actual physical evidence that could be handled and reviewed by the reporters and outside experts. But first, here is one potentially logical reason: the physical evidence is not strong, and some low level officials would only provide it anonymously to avoid being tied to it in case it was not valid?
fraud guy:
Go to the link which I provided with the evidence provided by the United States. Here are the differences between the US case and Iranian propaganda. 1) The US captured Iranian operatives in Iraq carrying Iranian militia ID. The Iranians have captured no Americans in Iran. 2) The US captured Iranian weapons in Iraq and provided annotated photographs providing the evidence of Iranian origin. The Iranian state news agency provided a Photoshopped photographs which were revealed as false in less than a day. 3) The US provided photographs of US vehicles which have been hit by the Iranian weapons. The Iranians have provided nothing of the sort. It would be interesting if the press actually requested that the US military display the actual Iranian weapons. However, they spent most of their time attacking the veracity of the military briefers when they are giving enemy propaganda a pass.
How restrained of Bart merely to call this story a libel and to acknowledge the NYT will escape liability under NYT v. Sullivan (even if an individual plaintiff could be found). Usually when he calls a news story enemy propaganda, he calls for prosecution for treaon.
The blogosphere continues to dismantle the Iranian propaganda photo while the Israeli press picks up the story.
Don't hold your breath waiting for the NYT to do the same.
"Bart" DePalma:
Earlier today, littlegreenfootballs.com appears to have exposed the clumsy Photoshopped images of alleged US weapons which were published on the Iranian FARS News Agency website.... Wow. Now "Bart" is quoting the foamer brigades at LittleGreenSnotballs as asome kind of authority. Then again, "Bart" is fond of WhirledNutzDaily, and Freeperville as "sources", so I guess the step over the line to the rabid pack at LGF is not too surprising.... Say, "Bart", still waiting: Any explanation from our resident military intelligence alum as to why the Iranians would label their 81mm mortar shells with dates in U.S. format and with English words ("lot") on them? Cheers,
"Bart" DePalma says:
Professor, Iran has been an enemy of this nation since their attack on our embassy in 1979. Ummm, it started a bit earlier. But "Bart" is too busy reading LittleGreenSnotballs to bother with such as Stephen Kinzer's work All The Shah's Men". Too bad, because he might actually learn something if he read it.... Cheers,
"Bart" DePalma once again shows his almost complete ognorance of actual matters of law:
[Prof. Levinson]: The Times certainly did not state that the US was in fact complicit, only that Iran was making claims that that was so. Defamation 101: Generally, anyone who repeats someone else's statements is just as responsible for their defamatory content as the original speaker — if they knew, or had reason to know, of the defamation. Utter and complete nonsense. So, in "Bart"'s twisted mind, even the court in, ferinstance, Hustler v. Falwell would have been committing defamation themselves simply by publishing the court records ... aside from the niggling detail that the Supes found for Hustler anyway.... Truly absurd, and if there's anyone here that ought to be forever shamed about opining as a supsed expert in matters legal, it ought to be ol' "Bart" here.... Cheers,
"Bart" DePalma is confoozed:
1) The US captured Iranian operatives in Iraq carrying Iranian militia ID.... Ummm, so Iranian officials at a liaison office are not to be carrying Iranian ID?!?!? Cuz if they didn't, then we'd summarily hang 'em as spies, you see. There was some fluffery by the screaming RW hordes also abut how they were trying to destroy documents when their office was attacked. Imagine that ... too bad the U.S.S. Pueblo didn't manage to do that (even though they were supposed to) when they were captured, eh? Cheers,
"Bart" DePalma says:
3) The US provided photographs of US vehicles which have been hit by the Iranian weapons. Correction: Pictures of U.S. vehocles with holes in them. Bit f a difference. Cheers,
Bart,
You actually completely avoided my question. But I will look at your points one by one --1) The US captured Iranian operatives in Iraq carrying Iranian militia ID. The Iranians have captured no Americans in Iran. 1) Arne countered your ID "point", but in addition, the ones USING the purported American explosives were homegrown Iranian terrorists based in Pakistan, who are allegedly funded and supplied by the US. No Americans needed to be present for the Iranian statement. --2) The US captured Iranian weapons in Iraq and provided annotated photographs providing the evidence of Iranian origin. The Iranian state news agency provided a Photoshopped photographs which were revealed as false in less than a day. 2) JT Davis countered this. --3) The US provided photographs of US vehicles which have been hit by the Iranian weapons. The Iranians have provided nothing of the sort. 3) IIRC, the photos you reference showed complete munitions, as opposed to fragments left by an actual attack on the actual damaged US vehicles. As one prosecutor said to me "damn that CSI. Why do we have to do forensics" --It would be interesting if the press actually requested that the US military display the actual Iranian weapons. However, they spent most of their time attacking the veracity of the military briefers when they are giving enemy propaganda a pass. Actually, the press who were initially given the powerpoint did not question its veracity and published the information without question, so the presentation could have been sent out officially as a press release as opposed to anonymously sourced by officials through credulous reporters. You did not answer my question or refute my hypothetical case on why the administration chose to release its "proof positive" in such a deniable manner. Since Bush has been hinting at his proof of Iranian involvement for some time, you would think that very official, named sources would trumpet it from the halls of power (unless no one else wants to be Powell at the UN).
Fraud Guy:
Actually, the press who were initially given the powerpoint did not question its veracity and published the information without question, so the presentation could have been sent out officially as a press release as opposed to anonymously sourced by officials through credulous reporters. This was pretty much the MO for the Dubya maladministration in moving their faulty "intelligence' for the Iraq war into the discourse as well; leak it to reporters, wait for the reporters to publish it, and then go and cite the reported news articles as verification of the claims..... "Fool me once, shame on you ... fool me twice ... uhh, umm, ... uh, won't get fooled again." Cheers,
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