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Balkinization Symposiums: A Continuing List                                                                E-mail: Jack Balkin: jackbalkin at yahoo.com Bruce Ackerman bruce.ackerman at yale.edu Ian Ayres ian.ayres at yale.edu Corey Brettschneider corey_brettschneider at brown.edu Mary Dudziak mary.l.dudziak at emory.edu Joey Fishkin joey.fishkin at gmail.com Heather Gerken heather.gerken at yale.edu Abbe Gluck abbe.gluck at yale.edu Mark Graber mgraber at law.umaryland.edu Stephen Griffin sgriffin at tulane.edu Jonathan Hafetz jonathan.hafetz at shu.edu Jeremy Kessler jkessler at law.columbia.edu Andrew Koppelman akoppelman at law.northwestern.edu Marty Lederman msl46 at law.georgetown.edu Sanford Levinson slevinson at law.utexas.edu David Luban david.luban at gmail.com Gerard Magliocca gmaglioc at iupui.edu Jason Mazzone mazzonej at illinois.edu Linda McClain lmcclain at bu.edu John Mikhail mikhail at law.georgetown.edu Frank Pasquale pasquale.frank at gmail.com Nate Persily npersily at gmail.com Michael Stokes Paulsen michaelstokespaulsen at gmail.com Deborah Pearlstein dpearlst at yu.edu Rick Pildes rick.pildes at nyu.edu David Pozen dpozen at law.columbia.edu Richard Primus raprimus at umich.edu K. Sabeel Rahmansabeel.rahman at brooklaw.edu Alice Ristroph alice.ristroph at shu.edu Neil Siegel siegel at law.duke.edu David Super david.super at law.georgetown.edu Brian Tamanaha btamanaha at wulaw.wustl.edu Nelson Tebbe nelson.tebbe at brooklaw.edu Mark Tushnet mtushnet at law.harvard.edu Adam Winkler winkler at ucla.edu Compendium of posts on Hobby Lobby and related cases The Anti-Torture Memos: Balkinization Posts on Torture, Interrogation, Detention, War Powers, and OLC The Anti-Torture Memos (arranged by topic) Recent Posts World Historical Incompetents
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Tuesday, January 16, 2007
World Historical Incompetents
JB
There is an amusing discussion over at Crooked Timber, based in turn on an article in Inside Higher Education by Scott McLemee, over whether George W. Bush should be considered a World Historical Individual in the Hegelian sense.
Comments:
Sir, let me say, before the vandals swoop in, that it is nothing short of a delight to see the words "Bush" and "loser" juxtaposed in so correct a manner. Touche.
Prof. Balkin [from the post]:
Instead, I would call such leaders world historical incompetents-- people who, put in the wrong place at the wrong time, with skills unable to the task, manage to destroy a great deal that was once thought valuable or good, and thus, unwittingly, change the world in ways they had no intention of doing. When Dubya was "overmatched" in college, and in every subsequent business he started (Molly Ivins's remark that he's the only Texas oilman never to have found oil in Texas comes to mind), it's not surprising that he's over his head as preznit. Under more placid circumstances, this might not have made itself apparent (but his disregard of -- or antipathy to -- science would nonetheless have wreaked significant long-term damage). But under the circumstances, his incompetence has come to the forefront. One feature to note is not only that in trying times, the incompetence becomes apparent, but additionally, the incompetence becomes magnified when the situation deteriorates due to earlier incompetency, resulting in more dire circumstances and further and more significant errors. Cheers,
Just yesterday Al Gore announced that he was not going to run for President in 2008.
There's some doubt about the accuracy of this report. Link.
I'm not sure that one incompetent individual is the most useful way of characterizing the situation. The entire situation is strikingly similar to the years just prior to Caeser's rise to power with the passing of the Lex Gabinia and the Lex Manilia. Of course the big difference is that Pompey actually defeated the pirate threat, instead of spreading it around with ill considered strategies and half-efforts. Still, to defeat a borderless foe they they passed laws that led to the end of their democracy. We may end up with the worst of both worlds.
Regarding Stalin and the forces of history: Stalin's empire was destroyed between 1989 and 1991, but at the time of his death in 1953 it was very much intact and about to test its first thermonuclear weapon. If one defines his primary goal as expanding Soviet power in the crudest sense, Stalin died a success, though his immense crimes and follies did much to doom Soviet power in the decades after his death.
Professor Balkin:
My second point concerns contingency in history, a familiar theme. Just yesterday Al Gore announced that he was not going to run for President in 2008. I am sad to hear it...In hindsight, however, it seems to me clear that the United States would very likely have been better off if Al Gore had taken office in 2000 rather than George W. Bush. He might have proved incompetent, but it is hard to believe that, given his experience in government and in foreign policy, he could have been much more incompetent than the stubborn and inexperienced George W. Bush. Would you care to expand on this argument of the superior competence of a Gore Administration? I am having a hard time seeing it. If a Gore Administration continued the policies of the Clinton/Gore administration, we could have expected a continuation of the legal walls erected between the domestic and international intelligence agencies which prevented them from sharing information on the enemy, no intelligence gathering on telecommunications into the United States originating from overseas enemy sources like the kind which coordinated the attacks on 9/11, no messy ground wars against the enemy which entail actual casualties, ineffective air strikes against al Qeada targets in Afghanistan and elsewhere just like in the 90s, treating the enemy as criminal defendants which may not be acted against without warrant and indictments, waiting on the UN to authorize military action against the enemy, and allowing rogue nations to continue to develop WMD and support enemy terror groups who are attacking Americans. Perhaps it would be useful to remember that the enemy attacked our citizens around the world and in this country repeatedly during the last administration and has not successfully done so outside of the Iraq and Afghanistan war zones since 9/11. This is my measure of competence for any national defense policy. I would argue that history in 50 years is far more likely to apply the term "world historical incompetent" to the previous administration's foreign policy than that of the current administration.
"Bart" DePalma asks:
Would you care to expand on this argument of the superior competence of a Gore Administration? I am having a hard time seeing it. Oh, I'll have a go at it. Trained chipmunks would have had a superior competence to the Dubya maladministration. They would not have gotten 3000+ (and counting) U.S. soldiers killed -- not even "for nothing", but far worse -- to make a situation much more dangerous and unstable. And they wouldn't have eaten half a trillion dollars of our kids' money in seeds.... Cheers,
"Bart" DePalma says:
If a Gore Administration continued the policies of the Clinton/Gore administration, we could have expected a continuation of the legal walls erected between the domestic and international intelligence agencies which prevented them from sharing information on the enemy, .... Lies and unsupported speculation. Straight out of the RNC/Hannity/Freeperville "talking points" files. ... no intelligence gathering on telecommunications into the United States originating from overseas enemy sources like the kind which coordinated the attacks on 9/11, ... Plenty of people have pointed out that no one is arguing against intelligence gathering; the only request is that it be done following the law. FWIW, I've probably done more since 9/11 in fighting terrorism than "Bart" has. But I see no reason to do anything against the law; if the laws are not working, "mend it, don't end-run it". The trope about Democrats not wanting to listen to al Qaeda is simply not true. It's been pointed out to "Bart" numerous times that surveillance of al Qaeda overseas (for instance, "telecommunications into the United States originating from overseas enemy sources") doesn't even require a FISA warrant, and that even where they are required, FISA warrants are essentially never turned down. All people have been asking is that the requirements of FISA be followed, but that prevents no surveillance of import, nor do the people asking for such want no such surveillances. More lies. ... no messy ground wars against the enemy which entail actual casualties, ineffective air strikes against al Qeada targets in Afghanistan ... Ummm, the Afghan war was fought "on the cheap", with mostly U.S. air power and lots of mercenaries/locals doing the actual fighting. In fact, as some have suggested, this may account for the fact that Dubya didn't manage to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive". Whether Dubya thought this a good idea to keep down annoying "casualties" or just thought it wise for other reasons, we don't know. But it seems in retrospect to have been a poor decision, particularly when the U.S. population would have been far more willing to accept casualties in an actual hunt for bin Laden than in that quagmire we call Iraq.... .. and elsewhere just like in the 90s, treating the enemy as criminal defendants which may not be acted against without warrant and indictments, .... The question is whether the "enemy" is in fact the "enemy". Make the case, and they're all yours. ... waiting on the UN to authorize military action against the enemy, .... In retrospect, perhaps a good idea. Iraq might have gone better if Dubya had waited until there was sufficient proof to justify and invasion, and gotten more than just a "Coalition of the Billing". But in this case, it would have played out that the war was unnecessary, and hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved. ... and allowing rogue nations to continue to develop WMD... Ummm, like North Korea? ... and support enemy terror groups who are attacking Americans. Iraq wasn't supporting groups "who [were] attackng Americans. A string of complete drivel and slander from Harold "Bart" DePalma, Esq., of the Colorado bar. Cheers,
To what extent are world historical leaders (not "incompetents") necessarily authoritarian, i.e., not really hemmed in by a strong sense of institutional limits? Do any Americans really compare to the list of "Hegelian" world historical figures. FDR is very important, but it's hard to argue that he transformed the world in a way that Napoleon or Hitler did. Ditto Lincoln. I should note that this "limitation" is a compliment to the American system and not a criticism. We will have lost a "republican form of government" if we ever do have genuinely world-historical leaders.
Prof. Levinson:
I should note that this "limitation" is a compliment to the American system and not a criticism. We will have lost a "republican form of government" if we ever do have genuinely world-historical leaders. Don't look now but .... Cheers,
To Bart:
I think it safe to assume that if Al Gore had been President at the time of the 9/11 attack, the scale of the attack would have changed at least something. It just would not have changed things to the degree Bush and is followers favor. Just as well, if you ask me.
Enlightened Layperson said...
To Bart: I think it safe to assume that if Al Gore had been President at the time of the 9/11 attack, the scale of the attack would have changed at least something. It just would not have changed things to the degree Bush and is followers favor. Just as well, if you ask me. Perhaps. However, the folks at the time did not think so. I believe it was the NYT which ran the article reporting that even Dem supporters of Gore were glad that Bush was in charge after 9/11. Do not misunderstand me. My reply to Professor Balkin was aimed to the policies of Clinton / Gore and not in any way to argue that Mr. Bush is perfect. Bush has made plenty of mistakes in his war. The key difference between the two administrations is that Mr. Bush was willing to wage war against an enemy which had been waging war against us for years while the prior administration and I dare say a hypothetical Gore administration would not. Until I see a post Vietnam Dem administration actually suggest nevertheless engage in a ground war against an enemy of this country, I simply do not have the basis to believe that a future Dem administration will do so. Indeed, the current Dem calls (including those of Mr. Gore) for a withdrawal and surrender in Iraq and the Dem attempts to run Joe Lieberman out of the party do not exactly change my opinion in this regard.
"Bart" DePalma:
The key difference between the two administrations is that Mr. Bush was willing to wage war against an enemy which had been waging war against us for years while the prior administration and I dare say a hypothetical Gore administration would not. I think "Bart" is sadly mistaken. Pretty much any administration would have taken on al Qaeda in Afghanistan (and likely the Taleban if they didn't give al Qaeda up). He's probably right that Gore may well not have attacked Iraq, but that seems to be a bit of a feather in Gore's cap, at least comparatively (since in fact, Iraq had not been "waging war against us for years" and was no threat .. not to mention invading that country would be a complete bollix). But I note that, under different circumstances, the Republican apologists trot out a mile long quotes from Democrats against Iraq in support of Dubya's invasion of Iraq (including one from Gore, I believe). Can't have it both ways.... Cheers,
IT'S HAGEL, NOT HEGEL
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This is an interesting and paradox idea. The Straussian rhetoric frequently used by Administration spokesmen, including Bush himself, would make him out to be a world-historical figure. I think for instance of the umpteen times that he used the word "decider" and "decision" in his recent 60 Minutes interview. But for Bush to be a world-historical figure in Hegel's sense, his conduct would have to reflect the spirit of the age, as in this passage of the Lectures on the Philosophy of History of 1837, in which he concludes that a world-historical figure's dealings, his speeches must be the best of the era. "Dies sind die großen Menschen in der Geschichte, deren eigne partikulare Zwecke das Substantielle enthalten, welches Wille des Weltgeistes ist. [...] Solche Individuen hatten in diesen ihren Zwecken nicht das Bewußtsein der Idee überhaupt, sondern sie waren praktische und politische Menschen. Aber zugleich waren sie denkende, die die Einsicht hatten von dem, was not und was an der Zeit ist. Das ist eben die Wahrheit ihrer Zeit und ihrer Welt, sozusagen die nächste Gattung, die im Innern bereits vorhanden war. Ihre Sache war es, dies Allgemeine, die notwendige nächste Stufe ihrer Welt zu wissen, diese sich zum Zwecke zu machen und ihre Energie in dieselbe zu legen. Die welthistorischen Menschen, die Heroen einer Zeit, sind darum als die Einsichtigen anzuerkennen; ihre Handlungen, ihre Reden, sind das Beste der Zeit." And on this point, surely the decisive word lies not with Hegel, but with Hagel, who made this observation the day after "surge" speech: "I think this speech given last night by this president represents the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam."
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