Balkinization: If Democrats Had Spine (or were Thinking like Republicans)

Not "Military Dictatoship Act" -- GWB is a civilian.

This was the Torture Act.

# posted by

Raven : 6:42 PM

Like most political events under our legal structure, effects, as you forecast, take time. It is a well tempered system which adapts to inputs before generating response. To me the first opportunity to address MCA will occur when one of the mistaken captures brings an appeal to a sentence. Then the political strategizers will have to face the balance afforded by the judiciary, Sen Graham, Rep. King, and others notwithstanding. Meanwhile there is the aristotelian catharsis anticipated from the pageant of war crimes tribunals and executions, which Karl and associates will use to rally voters. Look for the first trial and sentence of the worst just before voters go to the polls.

However, it really offers no comment on Democrats, who, after all, are a patriotic lot, if more nuanced. We would like the safeguards built into the process upfront. Not with this congress.

I liked the bipartisan spirit Rep. Wilson captured in her measure to assure each person on the intell committee in both chambers receives briefings, not simply the FISA-8 who are sworn to secrecy; yet, her 'modernization' measure earned Harman's Nay vote. So we are going to revisit the secret government philosophy of this again in the wiretap legislation.

I think there is ample ground upon which Democrats can agree such modernizations will keep the checks and balances in government without accepting the brickbats of Republicans who would like to frame the debate in more classical jingoism concepts. But I worry a lot about sending elected representatives like those to a proposed constitutional convention; they are making some pretty unseemly laws as it is.

# posted by

JohnLopresti : 6:54 PM

Raven is right -- this was the Torture Bill. I'd like to see an ad something like the following:

Camera pans over instruments of torture (there are such images from the Khmer Rouge and probably others). A narrator says, "Dictators in every age have abused human rights by torturing people. Waterboarding [show one] makes the victim believe he's drowning. We prosecuted the Japanese for war crimes because they did this in World War II.

Now a victim appears and describes how awful the process was. If there is no victim readily available, use a written description and the narrator.

The ad ends with the narrator saying, "Torture is not an American value. X voted for torture. We don't need Senators/Representatives who do what dictators do, we need Senators/Representatives who will stand up for America."

This ad could be varied with other forms of torture. It could also be run as a candidate ad with the Democrat at the end looking into the camera and saying, "I'm X. I'll never vote for torture."

# posted by

Mark Field : 8:41 PM

I don't understand this "if the Democrats had backbone" meme. Doesn't it seem plausible that the majority of senators and congressmen actually agree with the majority of American voters in supporting the legislation?

Meanwhile, I'd like to limit the discussion to people with credibility. I'd like to suggest that discussion of GWOT issues be limited to people who never believed any of the following:

1. The Rosenbergs are innocent.
2. Alger Hiss is innocent.
3. The Soviet system is not too different from our own, and is not going to collapse any time soon.
4. If we would just negotiate with the PLO, Mideast peace could be achieved.

If you ever believed any of these things, I, and most Americans, will never, ever, ever listen to you, so don't bother.

# posted by

sean : 9:07 PM

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# posted by

humblelawstudent : 9:40 PM

Griffin and others,

Please take your advice! You will only ensure permament minority status for Democrats for years to come.

The reason why Dems lose elections is because they get tied to statements like yours.

The "Military Dictatorship Act of 2006." Oh my God, seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? Even if you actually believe that, you will only look like fools to the American people. But, be my guest, I'm not in the habit of correcting the political idiocy of the "loyal opposition."

# posted by

humblelawstudent : 9:41 PM

I think that's right, it's the Torture Act. And I think it may be true that Democrats voted for it because they agree with it.

It is not clear to me, however, that most Americans agree with it - or would if they knew what it meant.

# posted by

Professor Zero : 2:10 AM

Anyone still have info on those nice, middle-class girls who were rounded up for protesting the RNC and denied access to lawyers, etc?

Thinking of THOSE folks in Gitmo might help clarify the issue for people.

Also, although this plays on prejudices, "Why are we trying to get more like Syria?" ...Maybe better to find some of Reagan's old "Evil Empire" speeches about the [then-]Soviet Union.

# posted by

ninufar : 6:09 PM

Whoo, that's some act of courage, making that post under your real name when you're living in a freshly minted military dictatorship. It was nice knowing you, enjoy the prison camp!

The American people are rationally ignorant about political matters, but not, on average, all THAT stupid. We are, obviously, not yet living in any sort of dictatorship, and that sort of overheated rhetoric won't help.

Try explaining why the bill is bad. Shouldn't be that difficult, given that it IS bad, and the voting public might be pleasantly suprised at the novelty of politicians trying to persuade them by rational argument.

# posted by

Brett : 7:18 AM

The people are scared?
The people did not come up with this act, and the people did not vote for it.
The people are being bombarded by fear messages and messages that Democrats want to appease the terrorists, and that Republicans are Steely Eyed Rocket Men. While the Democrats simply don'[t have the microphone.
Do they buy this? The polls say no.
Are the people scared?
Do they look scared?
Do they act scared?
And I don't mean do they sit still for Republican handwaving: I mean activity.
The answer from my perch is no.

Rhetorical strategies?
"Where's Osama?" to start with.

How about "If a criminal is holed up in a building, how about going in and getting him instead of blowing up a nearby warehouse because it MIGHT have weapons that he MIGHT use?"

How about "Iraq is the central front of the Global War on Terror? Mind telling us where the other fronts are, and what's being done about them? Is North Korea a front in the Global War on Terror? How's that front going? Are we advancing on it?"

How about: "What if it hadn't been Katrina, but an Al Qaeda operative with a suitcase nuke that had blown the New Orleans levees. Would the Republicans' response to the disaster have been any different--any better? Let's occcupy another country and pour in 800 billion--BILLION dollars--but inspect the containers coming into our ports--too expensive. Defend our chemical and nuclear facilities with military security? Too expensive. Replace a seasoned expert in disaster relief with an incompetetnt party loyalist? Priceless."

How about "Iraq is the central front of the war on terror. What flaming idiot of a general keeps pounding away at the central front? Shouldn't we be sweeping around the sides, attacking the flank of the opponent.

You know the last folks who used that strategy? The French in World War I. Just keep throwing men at their strongest point. Just keep sending them right into themachine gun fire--because using anything like flanking maneuvers is just 'cut and run.'

Iraq is not the central front of the war on terror--it's the TRENCH WARFARE of the War on Terror.

Think about it. You know that it's true.

And it takes a bunch of guys who've never commanded forces in battle--who've never even SEEN combat--to think that that the French General Staff is a fine model for their war."

OK, I'll stop. But there's a huge amount that we can hit them on.

The main thing is, we need the microphone for that, and we don't have it. If we grab it--the way the Big Dog did--they snatch it back and begin talking at top speed about how crazy that was, how irrational, how shamefully unbalanced--and look! Football season!

# posted by

pbg : 12:44 PM

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# posted by

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