| Balkinization   |
|
Balkinization
|
Friday, September 15, 2006
At Last, the Issue is Publicly Joined . . . and When All the Smoke has Cleared, the Central Question is Quite Simple
Marty Lederman
And it is this: Should the CIA be legally authorized to breach the Geneva Conventions by engaging in the following forms of "cruel treatment" prohibited by "common" Article 3(1)(a) of those Conventions?:
Comments:
Good post Marty.
My analysis is that Congress has no authority to authorize violations of Geneva in the first place. (1) Each of the four Geneva conventions contains a clause on denunciations, which states: "Each of the High Contracting Parties shall be at liberty to denounce the present Convention. "The denunciation shall be notified in writing to the Swiss Federal Council, which shall transmit it to the Governments of all the High Contracting Parties. "The denunciation shall take effect one year after the notification thereof has been made to the Swiss Federal Council. However, a denunciation of which notification has been made at a time when the denouncing Power is involved in a conflict shall not take effect until peace has been concluded, and until after operations connected with the release and repatriation of the persons protected by the present Convention have been terminated. "The denunciation shall have effect only in respect of the denouncing Power. It shall in no way impair the obligations which the Parties to the conflict shall remain bound to fulfil by virtue of the principles of the law of nations, as they result from the usages established among civilized peoples, from the laws of humanity and the dictates of the public conscience." GC III art. 142, GC IV art. 158. Under the supremacy clause, that is US law, and the principle that one does not change or suspend the rules during an armed conflict is nothing new. The very first US treaty that touched on this was the 1785 Treaty of Amity and Commerce with Prussia, which states: "[I]t is declared, that neither the pretence that war dissolves all treaties, nor any other whatever, shall be considered as annulling or suspending this & the next preceding article, but on the contrary, that the state of war is precisely that for which they are provided, & during which they are to be as sacredly observed as the most acknowledged articles in the law of nature or nations." Id. art. 24. (2) Even if you make the Geneva conventions vanish, what remains are the Nuremberg Principles and customary law going back to Hague 1907, the Lieber Code (1863), and beyond. The Bush administration's war crimes will still be crimes against humanity, and any effort by Congress to provide them cover for those crimes will also be a crime. What people need to understand is that no terrorist is as a great a threat to us as a government that will not obey our own laws. Bush and Cheney are criminals, and that is all that they are.
"The question is not simply whether, in the abstract, it would be a good or acceptable idea for the United States to use such techniques in certain extreme circumstances on certain detainees. ... [T]hat is obviously a question on which there is substantial public disagreement, much of it quite sincere and serious." Really? Perhaps it is a serious question if we limit ourselves to a "ticking bomb" hypothetical. The language "certain extreme circumstances on certain detainees" amounts to a "ticking bomb" hypothetical, because, in reality, if torture is allowed, it will be used indiscriminately, as it has been. In the real world, whether torture is good does not seem to be a question upon which reasonable people differ. There seems to be unanimity among reasonable people that torture produces no valid intelligence and serves no purpose except putting our soldiers at risk. Bush and Cheney's contrary view can be explained only by their particular psychological needs.
So, if we were to use techniques like those used against the mastermind of the 9/11 attack -- techniques that even Graham and McCain acknowledge allowed the U.S. to stop additional attacks inside the U.S. -- we should not use them because they could be construed as being in violation of of the Geneva convention.
I think the appropriate phrase is that our Constitution is not a suicide pact. The Constitution trumps the Geneva Convention so I'll go with it. If we use techinques that have proven successful in stopping attacks, we should use them. It is a false premise that doing so will ut our soldiers in greater danger. When the militant Islamists capture our soldiers they behead them -- they certainly do not follow the Geneva Convention.
jdri - I suggest that you read this post from an actual solider on this subject - http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/09/what_weve_lost.html
In any case the actions of the terrorist should have no impact on our actions. Have we come so far from that "Shining city upon a hill"?
President Bush repeatedly asserted today at his press conference that the problem is merely one of ambiguity, that all the CIA is seeking is clarity about what Common Article 3 prohibits. (At the same time, he and his administration have refused to say specifically what interrogation techniques "the program" has employed.)
As I understand it, DOD just clarified with specificity in the new field manual what is prohibited. Why cannot the War Crimes Act simply reference that same specificity? Isn't it because Bush, Hayden and other executives know -- but are afraid to say out loud -- that the CIA techniques unambiguously violate those specific standards?
It is not simply a matter of whether militant Islamists behead American POWs. The following, pasted from Andrew Sullivan's blog, is from a marine describing his experience in Desert Storm:
If those men had even put up token resistance, some of us would not have come back. But they didn't even bother, and surrendered at least in part because of our reputation. Our two hundred year old reputation for being fair and humane and decent. All the way back to George Washington, and from President George H.W. Bush all the way down to a lance-corporal jarhead at the front. Its gone now, even from me. I can't get past that image of the Iraqi, in the hood with the wires and I'm not what you'd call a sensitive type. You know the picture. And now we have a total bust-out in the White House, and a bunch of rubber-stamps in the House, trying to make it so that half-drowning people isn't torture. That hypothermia isn't torture. That degradation isn't torture. We don't have that reputation for fairness anymore. Just the opposite, I think. And the next real enemy we face will fight like only the cornered and desperate fight. How many Marines' lives will be lost in the war ahead just because of this asshole who never once risked anything for this country?
I think the appropriate phrase is that our Constitution is not a suicide pact. The Constitution trumps the Geneva Convention so I'll go with it.
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding." -- Article VI For all the talk of suicide pacts, there appear to be people who don't mind torturing the Constitution to death.
Although the exact details of this program might change, more important is the arguments used by George Bush to push it through Congress: that these harsh techniques will prevent future attacks.
Think about this: we are not safe from 20 guys with box cutters! What attack is Bush talking about? Another 9/11? If our security relies upon us catching a terrorist who is planning an attack or knows the details of an attack, we should all be very afraid. Because what limit is there? This belief that we need to catch and torture people to ensure we don't get attacked again means that nobody is safe. The argument is essentially that our government can do anything if they think it might prevent an attack.
During the Second World War in Europe, at its very end, the Wehrmacht was far more likely end resistance before the British, French, and American forces, which had a reasonable reputation for humanity, than before the Soviets, who had raped and murdered from East Prussia and Pomeriania on. This fact saved American lives.
And, really, if these techniques are all that effective and efficient, why not use them for everything? Homicide investigations, child molestation investigations, down even to that, in any Republican's eyes, most forgiveable of crimes: tax evasion. I'm surprised at Bush's reticence. What a piker.
Tom _i: You don't need to refute Bush's arguments, because they are not worthy of being called "arguments" and are probably not even intended to be arguments. They are just fear-mongering.
Bush people appear dead scared of being held legally responsible for they misdeeds once a new Congress and administration take charge of things, and this appears to be the primary motivation for almost everything they do these days.
Evidence for it is everywhere. Take Specter for example - it is now quite clear that his primary goal was to protect Bush from legal consequences of his violations of surveillance statutes. Everything else in his bills is either a smoke screen or legal padding to hide his true intentions. And they are obviously quite desperate about it as witnessed by Spoecter's reckless willingness to take the country back (via his bills) to pre 1978, Hooverian days or by his public lies about including explicit blanket amnesty for Bush in his bill. The current discussion likely has a similar origin. It seems CIA concluded that they could be facing open courts ("War Crimes Act") once Bush is gone, so they went to their old boss papa Bush who out of sense of loyalty committed himself to get Junior to do something about it. And as seen yesterday Junior accepted the challenge wholeheartedly. "Partners in crime" so to speak. The need to shield the CIA for their deeds not the future "effectiveness" of CIA interrogators is what is really driving Bush here.
There is another aspect to all this apart from international fallout if Congress accedes to Bush's demands and that is why on earth only CIA should be permitted such techniques?
FBI after all is as good an agency as CIA and they may need to resort to "alternative" techniques when interrogating serious domestic "terror" suspects too. Think Mayfield or some eco-terrorists for example. Same thing applies to local police, being able to "force a prisoner to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees, during which he/she is doused with cold water" would do wonders to the effectiveness of local law enforcement agencies in serious domestic cases.
And finally, as Lederman I see no connection here to Geneva's prohibition on "outrages against human dignity," and "humiliating and degrading treatment."
Post a Comment
Let us be honest, if we really considered ourselves bound by Geneva as far as human dignity is concerned we would have to close down almost all of our prisons and, sadly, defrock quite a number of judges out there.
|
Books by Balkinization Bloggers Andrew Koppelman, The Tough Luck Constitution and the Assault on Health Care Reform (Oxford University Press, 2013)
James E. Fleming and Linda C. McClain, Ordered Liberty: Rights, Responsibilities, and Virtues (Harvard University Press, 2013) Balkinization Symposium on Ordered Liberty: Rights, Responsibilities, and Virtues
Andrew Koppelman, Defending American Religious Neutrality (Harvard University Press, 2013)
Brian Z. Tamanaha, Failing Law Schools (University of Chicago Press, 2012)
Sanford Levinson, Framed: America's 51 Constitutions and the Crisis of Governance (Oxford University Press, 2012)
Linda C. McClain and Joanna L. Grossman, Gender Equality: Dimensions of Women's Equal Citizenship (Cambridge University Press, 2012)
Mary Dudziak, War Time: An Idea, Its History, Its Consequences (Oxford University Press, 2012)
Jack M. Balkin, Living Originalism (Harvard University Press, 2011)
Jason Mazzone, Copyfraud and Other Abuses of Intellectual Property Law (Stanford University Press, 2011)
Richard W. Garnett and Andrew Koppelman, First Amendment Stories, (Foundation Press 2011)
Jack M. Balkin, Constitutional Redemption: Political Faith in an Unjust World (Harvard University Press, 2011)
Gerard Magliocca, The Tragedy of William Jennings Bryan: Constitutional Law and the Politics of Backlash (Yale University Press, 2011)
Bernard Harcourt, The Illusion of Free Markets: Punishment and the Myth of Natural Order (Harvard University Press, 2010)
Bruce Ackerman, The Decline and Fall of the American Republic (Harvard University Press, 2010) Balkinization Symposium on The Decline and Fall of the American Republic
Ian Ayres. Carrots and Sticks: Unlock the Power of Incentives to Get Things Done (Bantam Books, 2010)
Mark Tushnet, Why the Constitution Matters (Yale University Press 2010)
Ian Ayres and Barry Nalebuff: Lifecycle Investing: A New, Safe, and Audacious Way to Improve the Performance of Your Retirement Portfolio (Basic Books, 2010)
Jack M. Balkin, The Laws of Change: I Ching and the Philosophy of Life (2d Edition, Sybil Creek Press 2009)
Brian Z. Tamanaha, Beyond the Formalist-Realist Divide: The Role of Politics in Judging (Princeton University Press 2009)
Andrew Koppelman and Tobias Barrington Wolff, A Right to Discriminate?: How the Case of Boy Scouts of America v. James Dale Warped the Law of Free Association (Yale University Press 2009)
Jack M. Balkin and Reva B. Siegel, The Constitution in 2020 (Oxford University Press 2009)
Heather K. Gerken, The Democracy Index: Why Our Election System Is Failing and How to Fix It (Princeton University Press 2009)
Mary Dudziak, Exporting American Dreams: Thurgood Marshall's African Journey (Oxford University Press 2008)
David Luban, Legal Ethics and Human Dignity (Cambridge Univ. Press 2007)
Ian Ayres, Super Crunchers: Why Thinking-By-Numbers is the New Way to be Smart (Bantam 2007)
Jack M. Balkin, James Grimmelmann, Eddan Katz, Nimrod Kozlovski, Shlomit Wagman and Tal Zarsky, eds., Cybercrime: Digital Cops in a Networked Environment (N.Y.U. Press 2007)
Jack M. Balkin and Beth Simone Noveck, The State of Play: Law, Games, and Virtual Worlds (N.Y.U. Press 2006)
Andrew Koppelman, Same Sex, Different States: When Same-Sex Marriages Cross State Lines (Yale University Press 2006)
Brian Tamanaha, Law as a Means to an End (Cambridge University Press 2006)
Sanford Levinson, Our Undemocratic Constitution (Oxford University Press 2006)
Mark Graber, Dred Scott and the Problem of Constitutional Evil (Cambridge University Press 2006)
Jack M. Balkin, ed., What Roe v. Wade Should Have Said (N.Y.U. Press 2005)
Sanford Levinson, ed., Torture: A Collection (Oxford University Press 2004) Balkin.com homepage Bibliography Conlaw.net Cultural Software Writings Opeds The Information Society Project BrownvBoard.com Useful Links Syllabi and Exams |