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Balkinization Symposiums: A Continuing List                                                                E-mail: Jack Balkin: jackbalkin at yahoo.com Bruce Ackerman bruce.ackerman at yale.edu Ian Ayres ian.ayres at yale.edu Corey Brettschneider corey_brettschneider at brown.edu Mary Dudziak mary.l.dudziak at emory.edu Joey Fishkin joey.fishkin at gmail.com Heather Gerken heather.gerken at yale.edu Abbe Gluck abbe.gluck at yale.edu Mark Graber mgraber at law.umaryland.edu Stephen Griffin sgriffin at tulane.edu Jonathan Hafetz jonathan.hafetz at shu.edu Jeremy Kessler jkessler at law.columbia.edu Andrew Koppelman akoppelman at law.northwestern.edu Marty Lederman msl46 at law.georgetown.edu Sanford Levinson slevinson at law.utexas.edu David Luban david.luban at gmail.com Gerard Magliocca gmaglioc at iupui.edu Jason Mazzone mazzonej at illinois.edu Linda McClain lmcclain at bu.edu John Mikhail mikhail at law.georgetown.edu Frank Pasquale pasquale.frank at gmail.com Nate Persily npersily at gmail.com Michael Stokes Paulsen michaelstokespaulsen at gmail.com Deborah Pearlstein dpearlst at yu.edu Rick Pildes rick.pildes at nyu.edu David Pozen dpozen at law.columbia.edu Richard Primus raprimus at umich.edu K. Sabeel Rahmansabeel.rahman at brooklaw.edu Alice Ristroph alice.ristroph at shu.edu Neil Siegel siegel at law.duke.edu David Super david.super at law.georgetown.edu Brian Tamanaha btamanaha at wulaw.wustl.edu Nelson Tebbe nelson.tebbe at brooklaw.edu Mark Tushnet mtushnet at law.harvard.edu Adam Winkler winkler at ucla.edu Compendium of posts on Hobby Lobby and related cases The Anti-Torture Memos: Balkinization Posts on Torture, Interrogation, Detention, War Powers, and OLC The Anti-Torture Memos (arranged by topic) Recent Posts Why Should We be "Boxed In" by the Constitution and Laws of the United States?
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Tuesday, August 22, 2006
Why Should We be "Boxed In" by the Constitution and Laws of the United States?
Marty Lederman
In today's Wall Street Journal, Judge Richard Posner laments the fact that the federal courts are available to adjudicate whether the President's chosen methods of fighting the war on terror are consistent with the Constitution and laws of the United States. (Thanks to Howard Bashman for the link.)
Comments:
All the posts here concerning the Taylor ruling have been excellent. I try to disseminate them to non-blog readers as much as possible. It is really quite amazing the kinds of impressions people are getting from just reading the news or, worse, watching it on television. The collective eye is nowhere near the ball on this one. Clarification is badly needed. Thanks.
There is an argument for these type of cases to be handled by specialized courts, as is done through FISA. Judge Taylor was clearly out of her depth in handling the wiretapping case. Also, a specialized court would minimize the risk of sensative information leakig. If the only courts that could possibly hear these type of cases is a FISA-type panel and the Supreme Court, many of the president's concerns would be met.
The only issue left is whether and to what extent courts should defer to the executive. Such a concept of deference, however, is certainly not from the founding of the nation, but instead a more modern concept. The case Bas v. Tingy, 4 US (4 Dall.) 37 (1800), probably the first case that could have dealt these issues, shows absolutely no concept of deferrence, but instead approached the questions presented under ordinary legal guidelines
If the only courts that could possibly hear these type of cases is a FISA-type panel and the Supreme Court, many of the president's concerns would be met.
To the best of my knowledge, FISA judges are not appointed because they possess any special expertise in "national security matters" (whatever that might be). They are just judges. Posner's argument proves far too much. Most judges are not experts in criminal procedure or estates or community property or patent law, etc. The whole system would collapse if we demanded that (to say nothing of the fact that expertise is infinitely divisible).
I often diagree here, but the last poster had a good point - Federal District judges are often almost illiterate in many of the areas in which they have to rule, and, yet, they muddle through. My experience here is with IP cases, where the judges are often clueless. But that is likely no different in many other arcane areas of the law.
I would only disagree in that, while not expert, I expect that almost all District Court judges have a much better understanding of criminal procedure, given that they have to deal with it on a routine basis, as opposed to national security, IP, etc. Part of this comes from having a state District Court judge teach my Crim Pro class when I was in law school - he had seen it all in 10 years on the bench, and knew more criminal procedure than most attorneys practicing criminal law. Federal judges don't obviusly see the volume of criminal cases that state judges do, but I still suspect most of them see a lot more of it than they would like.
While Mark is correct in saying that a judge on a FISA court has no special expertise prior to becoming such a judge, the "on-the-job training" of being such a judge gives these judges the needed expertise to handle these matters in areas other than warrants, etc.
the "on-the-job training" of being such a judge gives these judges the needed expertise to handle these matters in areas other than warrants, etc.
No doubt they'll develop expertise after they sit for a while, just as they do with criminal procedure (as Bruce pointed out). I'm not sure this solves Judge Posner's "problem", since any particular judge would have to hear cases before actually having such expertise. In any case, the same could be said for virtually any aspect of the law in these days of specialty practices. In my experience, judges who come to the bench with a criminal law background need a good deal of help with civil matters and vice versa. That's just on the procedure -- it sure would help if they were experts on substantive topics like antitrust, IP, RICO, etc., instead of having to be educated by the attorneys. If we demand such expertise, however, there's almost no limit to how many judges we'd need. As was pointed out in response to Brian Tamanaha's post above, there's value in having "outsiders" approach these problems, especially in cases where values tradeoffs -- liberty versus security -- predominate. Insiders can become all too incestuous.
Its wrong to assume that expertize is desirable in a judge deciding a controversy before him or her. We want the judge to decide the case based on the arguments, facts and expert opinions that are presented to him or her by the parties. A judge with expertise threatens to be a witness that neither party gets to cross-examine, or even hear testify. That's not a good thing.
Its wrong to assume that expertize is desirable in a judge deciding a controversy before him or her. We want the judge to decide the case based on the arguments, facts and expert opinions that are presented to him or her by the parties. A judge with expertise threatens to be a witness that neither party gets to cross-examine, or even hear testify. That's not a good thing.
So should we just abolish bankruptcy courts and the Federal Circuit? Heck, what's the point of administrative courts, such as the tax courts, then? I understand that expertise in a court might not be a good thing in some cases. The arguments against it here, however, are overly broad and don't determine when a specialized court is or is not a preferable option.
So should we just abolish bankruptcy courts and the Federal Circuit? Heck, what's the point of administrative courts, such as the tax courts, then?
I understand that expertise in a court might not be a good thing in some cases. The arguments against it here, however, are overly broad and don't determine when a specialized court is or is not a preferable option. The words “Its wrong to assume..” were very important to my comment. In the opening paragraph of his commentary, Judge Posner remarks on the “strangeness of confiding so momentous an issue of national security” to a judiciary that is “not chosen for their knowledge of national security.” Imbedded in this criticism is the assumption that having a controversy decided by a judge with expertise over the subject matter is preferable. Responses here seem to accept that assumption and respond to the criticism with arguments about how judges may develop expertise. My point is that it is wrong to accept the initial assumption without analysis. I don’t think I suggested in my comment that we never want a judge to have expertise. However, there are very good reasons -- namely, the ones that I mention in my prior comment -- for why having an expert judge is the exception and not the rule. I can understand the justification for having a dedicated court -- like the FISA court -- in order to control sensitive information. That, however, is different than having expert judges. As another commentator has mentioned, the FISA judges are not chosen for any special knowledge of national security. The justification for having expert judges, though, -- i.e., judges with special knowledge of national security -- seems less obvious to me. The judges in these cases will have to balance national security interests against individual rights. A judge with a background that affords special knowledge of national security is likely to have a pre-existing bias in favor of national security interests. I think I prefer to have the government’s case tested by the adversary system unbiased. Maybe I am wrong, but the assumption that expert judges would be better shouldn’t pass untested.
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