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Balkinization Symposiums: A Continuing List E-mail: Jack Balkin: jackbalkin at yahoo.com Bruce Ackerman bruce.ackerman at yale.edu Ian Ayres ian.ayres at yale.edu Corey Brettschneider corey_brettschneider at brown.edu Mary Dudziak mary.l.dudziak at emory.edu Joey Fishkin joey.fishkin at gmail.com Heather Gerken heather.gerken at yale.edu Abbe Gluck abbe.gluck at yale.edu Mark Graber mgraber at law.umaryland.edu Stephen Griffin sgriffin at tulane.edu Jonathan Hafetz jonathan.hafetz at shu.edu Jeremy Kessler jkessler at law.columbia.edu Andrew Koppelman akoppelman at law.northwestern.edu Marty Lederman msl46 at law.georgetown.edu Sanford Levinson slevinson at law.utexas.edu David Luban david.luban at gmail.com Gerard Magliocca gmaglioc at iupui.edu Jason Mazzone mazzonej at illinois.edu Linda McClain lmcclain at bu.edu John Mikhail mikhail at law.georgetown.edu Frank Pasquale pasquale.frank at gmail.com Nate Persily npersily at gmail.com Michael Stokes Paulsen michaelstokespaulsen at gmail.com Deborah Pearlstein dpearlst at yu.edu Rick Pildes rick.pildes at nyu.edu David Pozen dpozen at law.columbia.edu Richard Primus raprimus at umich.edu K. Sabeel Rahman sabeel.rahman at brooklaw.edu Alice Ristroph alice.ristroph at shu.edu Neil Siegel siegel at law.duke.edu David Super david.super at law.georgetown.edu Brian Tamanaha btamanaha at wulaw.wustl.edu Nelson Tebbe nelson.tebbe at brooklaw.edu Mark Tushnet mtushnet at law.harvard.edu Adam Winkler winkler at ucla.edu Compendium of posts on Hobby Lobby and related cases The Anti-Torture Memos: Balkinization Posts on Torture, Interrogation, Detention, War Powers, and OLC The Anti-Torture Memos (arranged by topic) Recent Posts Luban and the real debate about torture
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Sunday, November 27, 2005
Luban and the real debate about torture
JB David Luban's article in today's Washington Post is an excellent summary of key issues in the debate about torture. Here is the introduction: For viewers of TV shows such as "Commander in Chief" and "24," the question is about ticking bombs. To find the ticking bomb, should a conscientious public servant toss the rulebook out the window and torture the terrorist who knows where the lethal device is? Many people think the answer is yes: Supreme emergencies demand exceptions to even the best rules. Others answer no: A law is a law, and a moral absolute is a moral absolute. Period. Still others try to split the difference: We won't change the rule, but we will cross our fingers and hope that Jack Bauer, the daring counterterrorism agent on "24," will break it. Then we will figure out whether to punish Bauer, give him a medal, or both. Finally, some insist that since torture doesn't work -- that it doesn't actually unearth vital information -- the whole hypothetical rests on a false premise. Respectable arguments can be made on all sides of this debate. Luban explains why the Bush Administration is opposing the McCain Amendment, and what the Administration actually means when it says that "we don't torture" and we treat detainees "humanely." The Bush Administration's position is that (1) "Torture" does not include cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of the sort used in Guantanamo: "18- to 20-hour-a-day questioning for 48 out of 54 days, blasting prisoners with strobe lights and ear-splitting rock music, menacing them with snarling dogs, threatening to hurt their mothers, and humiliations such as leading them around on leashes Pfc. Lynndie England-style, stripping them naked in front of women, or holding them down while a female interrogator straddles them and whispers that we've killed their comrades." Therefore all such treatment is consistent with the Administration's statement that "we don't torture." (2) Although cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment (CID) violates the Constitution, not to mention international agreements to which the United States is a signatory, the Administration's position is that these bans on cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment do not apply outside the geographical boundaries of the United States and its territories. (The McCain amendment is designed to close this particular loophole, which, as Luban points out, was not intended by the original Senate reservations to the 1988 Convention Against Torture). So when the Administration says "we don't torture," what it really means is that "we are free to engage in cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment anywhere outside the United States, including Guantanamo Bay." (3) "Humane treatment" according to the Bush Administration, "requir[es] nothing more than providing food, clothing, shelter and medical care. In the Bush lexicon, therefore, sexual humiliation, acute sleep deprivation and threats to have a detainee's mother kidnapped and imprisoned are humane." Thus, when Adminstration officials say that "we treat our detainees humanely," they have said nothing about interrogation methods. (4) Members of al Qaeda (or, equally importantly, those the Administration believes are al Qaeda) have no rights against cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment: "Bush declared that al Qaeda members have no Geneva Conventions rights -- not even the minimum rights against cruel and humiliating treatment that the Geneva accords guarantee to detainees who don't qualify as POWs. Although in February 2002 the president ordered the military to treat detainees according to the Geneva standards, his order conspicuously omitted any mention of non-military agencies such as the CIA. It also left a large loophole for `military necessity.' In the law of war, military necessity encompasses anything that contributes to victory, so the president's directive really forbids nothing but pointless sadism. Cheney and his new chief of staff, David Addington, have fought the McCain amendment precisely because it would prohibit CID treatment. In short, we comply with our legal obligations because, in the Bush lexicon, we hardly have any." (5) Despite these artful rhetorical maneuvers, the Administration still manages to cross the very wide boundaries for interrogation practices it has set for itself: "We don't torture" means that we don't use worse tactics than CID [cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment] -- except when we do. Waterboarding (in which a prisoner is made to believe he is drowning) and withholding pain medication for bullet wounds cross the line into torture -- and both have allegedly been used. So does "Palestinian hanging," where a prisoner's arms are twisted behind his back and his wrists are chained five feet above the floor. Luban's article is a helpful corrective to a debate that Administration officials-- including the President of the United States-- have repeatedly and willfully confused with their Orwellian doublespeak. They have tortured the English language so they can treat others cruelly. We shouldn't let them get away with either practice. Posted 8:20 AM by JB [link]
Comments:
My understanding of Taser gun training is that the officers who want to use the taser on the job are required to recieve a shot from the stun gun before they can use it on the streets. In my not so humble opinion, our President, SecDef and others directing interogations must likewise personally experience all the techniques they want used on suspects.
شركة تنظيف واجهات حجر بالرياض شركة الصفرات لكشف التسربات شركة الصفرات لتخزين الاثاث شركة الصفرات لنقل الاثاث شركة الصفرات لتنظيف الفلل شركة الصفرات لتخزين العفش شركة نقل عفش بالرياض شركة الصفرات لتنظيف الموكيت شركة تنظيف مجالس بالرياض شركة الصفرات لتنظيف الشقق شركة تنظيف بيوت بالرياض شركة الصفرات لتنظيف البيارات شركة الصفرات لرش المبيدات شركة الصفرات لمكافحة الحشرات شركة الصفرات لعزل الخزانات شركة الصفرات لتنظيف الخزانات شركة تنظيف واجهات زجاج بالرياض
I am not the best, I am not one of the best, but every time I will try my best.
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